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The Real 1%-ers....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  2. Stilla

    Stilla Rookie

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    So wait...

    A union goes to the elected government with a contract, which the government agrees to pay and its the unions fault?

    Really?

    Chad Ochocinco had had 15 catches for 276 yards with one touchdown in 2011.
    He got paid $5.5 million in NE in 2011 for his performance.

    Who made the wrong deal?

    Was it the people who signed the contract or those who want jobs and are prepared with a negotiable contract?

    A toll worker doesn't work for the federal government, 1st off, so the guy in the video is fibbing.
    This kind of contract is agreed upon in local government, and many people can't even name there local representative in their local community. So who is really at fault....

    The voter. Who can care less about what happens in local government.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Please come back when you have an intelligent point to make.

    Tax payers don't pay NFL salaries, so it's irrelevant.

    It wasn't the union's fault, it was the fault of the obviously stupid politicians who signed off on the deal.

    Secondly, public employee unions should be outlawed as politicians benefit from making deals with them.

    No human standing in a toll booth collecting money deserves to make over $100k, never mind have an annual pension paid for by tax-payers of $120k PLUS lifetime health insurance after just 20 years working.

    When politicians and public sector union bosses get behind closed doors, they make deals that screw the taxpayer...and I'm a taxpayer.

    Make all toll booths automated. We don't need to pay pensions to machines and that's a good thing.

    The great part is that all this is going away and will become a thing of the past...and I'm excited about that.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  4. Stilla

    Stilla Rookie

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    I guess i edited my post while you commented, we make the same points.

    Although the "Please come back when you have an intelligent point to make." excites me.

    I might have to clean up shortly.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Nice!!!!! :confused:
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think you ignore the fact that we have a nation to run. Already, the automation at food stores, gas stations, and banks is costing a lot of jobs. Next, lets get rid of deregulation so we have even fewer jobs. Then let's get rid of public unions, so that people earn less and buy less forcing lots of stores to close or cut salaries. If you are looking for a rational, fair economic system, become a communist, but in our system, it's the negotiation of unions, CEOs, politicians, lawyers, media people, and so on that have generated an economic system that has over the long run seen steady growth. In my opinion, if our society can afford to pay Ochochinco $15 million and a toll booth collector $100,000, then maybe it's your salary that's too low or a combination of both your salary being too low and his salary being too high. Maybe that's where our nation needs to figure out a correction. Perhaps through taxation? But, to get rid of public unions would simply drive down wages for hundreds of thousands of middle class families. Why that would make you happy is beyond me, but that's why liberals often talk about how bitter conservatives are.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the smart thing to do, because it makes both fiscal, and logical sense, is to create more rules, regulations, and government so that we can employ more people. Afterall, more government jobs means more people working right? We should probably just hire however many people are unemployed, which would decrease unemployment, and put money into the economy. Best of all, would be creating a rule, or regulation that would require the government to hire everyone without a job, or anyone who wants one.
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Patters, you can not...well you can, but you'd be wrong...compare private sector wages to public sector wages. If I own a business, I can pay my employees whatever I choose as long as it's above minimum wage.

    But if I am a politician, I have no right to pay public employees "whatever I choose". And that's because TAXPAYERS pay for them. We are their employers. So politicians SHOULD do what's in the best interests of taxpayers, not public employees.

    No one who stands in a booth holding their hand out for money deserves to make $100k, never mind getting a $120k annual pension PLUS lifetime health insurance. Add in the fact that most toll collectors are friends of politicians...I know someone in MA who was both a toll collector and a friend of a politician.

    Work 50 years like the rest of us and then we can talk about retirement packages!

    You'd have to be under the influence of something to believe otherwise. Better yet, just keep watching Europe and you'll figure it out.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Pink is ugly...at least on text.

    Sounds awesome. Let's do it!

    EVERYONE deserves a living wage...even hamburger flippers!! Also, I believe everyone has the right to own an automobile too!
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How the right loves to demonize a group of people, in this case toll takers.. do you know how many shifts it takes to make 100K as a toll collector.. you have no life except in this booth.

    Being very familiar with overtime, which is often absurd, the employing folks contend that this is cheaper than hiring new people when you factor in benefits and the legacy costs...

    Save the hysteria about toll takers.. there are other fish to fry.

    FYI the real 1%'ers do not stay at the top for a couple of years, they are there forever as will their children be there as well.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Public workers should not be considered a separate class. There is no reason for that. We as voters have the right to elect in politicians who will stand up to unions if we want, and some have. Workers have the right to get together to try to get themselves a better deal. The story of the public worker is not the $100,000 toll booth collector, but it's the person earning $40,000 or so, plus decent benefits. In any system, there are anomalies that allow some outrageous salaries and that needs to be corrected. No one wants the $100,000 toll booth collector but to use the anomalies as cause to get rid of unions is just wrong. Many people are for working people earning a decent salary and that's why we elected Democrats.
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The reality is that most of state and federal government is made up of folks making around 40,000 per year.. and when they retire their pension averages between 25K and 30K...

    Of course there are exceptions, but the reality is that most do not get all that much.. pensions are computed on base salary, not overtime.
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Darryl...there are a LOT of exceptions. Go look up the city of Hartford public pension. Look up Massachusetts as well and look how many are getting $75k/yr + health insurance for life after 20 measely years.

    Like I said...glad this stuff will going the way of Europe soon.
  14. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I've asked this before and never got an answer. Why do we demand public sector employees have their wages cut along with the rest of us, rather than fight for equitable wages across the board? I think too many people are thinking on the wrong paradigm.

    As far as the decline of private sector wages over the last 10 years (or more), that problem will sort itself out. Either an American brain drain will happen, wherein talented Americans that can earn higher wages in other countries leave, or wages in other countries will increase to the point that bringing jobs back to a poorer America makes sense.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nik, because it's a race to the bottom. Get with the program :rolleyes:

    Now, to the OP: "It's hard to argue otherwise"???

    Au contraire, it's incredibly easy to.

    First of all, the "We are the 99%" slogan measures income disparity.

    Few if any government employees are among the true 1%, as measured by income disparity.

    So, if I want to say "no, no, this or that group is the 'true' 1%," I need only find a group that's approximately 1% of the population -- and that's if I think people can do math.

    One number floating around out there for Arab Americans is 3 million, or about 1%. So, if my goal is to get people to hate Arab Americans, I can say "Arab Americans: the true 1%." Then I can list all the things I don't like about them and claim they're better off than me. Ta daaaa!

    But say "the true 1%," we're saying they're the people who "really" have it better than the other 99% of America. As with Arabs in an ethnic sense, this is simply not true of government workers. We're essentially a middle class niche.

    A government worker with a college degree, by comparison, is screwed (compared to the private sector worker w/a college degree.) You do better in the gubmit without a college degree, overall, than in the economy at large.

    So, your disparity becomes Santorum territory: You want government employees to make less? You hate people without college degrees? What a snob.

    Back to the main point: if you can't establish that the gubmit workers have it better than the rest of us, you're full of sh1t. Score! You're full of sh1t.

    The surveys vary. The ones that take into account for the differences in the actual work done consistently say the gubmit workers earn less overall. Even the ones the righties like the most say your college degree is worth more in the private sector than the public sector.

    It's appealing for the "look at me I hate the government!!!" party to bash the public sector.

    You'll note 2 consistent goals among this political elite:

    1) shield from taxation those who actually do reap the greatest income, and

    2) redirect any awareness of the economic victimization of the middle class and poor toward any bogeyman that is handy.

    Blaming "da gubmit" for everything neatly sews together these two agenda items. Bonus! We can union-bash while we're at it!

    Meanwhile, people making tens of millions a year must be "protected" from these "incredibly overpaid" civil servants who make middle-class incomes.

    FAIL.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Post the site, I stand by what I say.. some make more, but the majority do not make all that much.. that is the reality of public pensions.

    The reality that the majority of government workers are clerks and the like..

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