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The Purpose of Torture: Cook up a Link Between Iraq and al Qaeda

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by apple strudel, May 15, 2009.

  1. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    We know a few certain facts:

    1) Under duress a detainee will say just about anything.

    2) The previous administration loved to cook up fanciful interpretations of intelligence, or intelligence itself.

    3) There is no accepted, vetted, or documented link between Iraq and al Qaeda.

    4) We went to war with a phony excuse.

    So now more evidence comes out to suggest that the real purpose of US torture was to elicit some, any, evidence of a link between Iraq and al Qaeda. There is no doubt in my mind that if some random civilian in Afghanistan said that there was 1 single terrorist camp that straddled the Iraqi border even if it didn't exist that we would have heard all about that instead of the 16 little words.

    So much for "saving American lives".

    Heh.

    Powell aide says torture helped build Iraq war case - CNN.com
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  2. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Fine, lets get it all out there, not just the cherry picked leaks intended to give us a false impression.
     
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When Is Jug Ears Going To Bring The Troops Home

    Get Out Of Afganistan No More Dead Americans Let The UN Deal With The Savages Of The World

    Close Gitmo Send The Prisoners To Frisco & Cambridge

    Yes We Can

    Dick Cheney Is Barack Hussein Obama's Cousin By Birth Obama Is Going To name His next Baby "Richard"
     
  4. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Agree 100% with the caveat that everything that is released needs to be thoroughly vetted.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So AS, given you first post, why were none of the 'phony confessions' used to justify the Iraq war?

    If there were such confessions please link a source.


    Doesn't matter since the Obama administration isn't going to release anything that would justify the EIT, they are only looking to distract people from the massive deficits the gov is running.
     
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Errr... Because they didn't get any?
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your claim from post #1:


    IOW you first post is self serving BS, thanks for clearing that up.
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    They tried, they failed. Pretty clear and that's coming from people who were there. Happy to clear it up for you.
     
  9. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    This was a blog in response to Wilkerson's claims:

    The Latest Delusions of Lawrence Wilkerson - The Plank

    Obviously this guy isn't a big fan. For me, I'm troubled by the idea that Iraq-Al Qaeda was a focus of interrogation rather than breaking down the AQ network. I wouldn't go so far as the character assassination attempted in this blog I posted, but I would just point out that not everybody is remembering things the same way that Wilkerson does:

    (from the original article posted)
    "Other interrogators reported pressure to produce intelligence "but did not recall pressure to identify links between Iraq and al Qaeda," the Senate report states."

    At the least these revelations are more evidence to me that the interrogation program was at best badly mishandled by those in charge, and at worst was guilty of illegal actions that warrant further investigation. It is another check mark on the side of why ending some of these programs was a good idea IMO.
     
  10. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    It's been reported before, from other sources, so the character attacks don't fly (they never really do).

    Craig Murray - Waterboarding Approved Specifically To Justify Iraq War
     
  11. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    here ya go:


    Emptywheel Wilkerson: al-Libi’s Waterboarding


    I'd love to hear your take on this. Remember he was an Iraqi guard, and a POW.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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  13. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yes, that was at the end of the original article you posted, though there were also interrogators who said they weren't pressured to find an AQ - Iraq link.
     
  14. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    I think the key word in the above statement is "also"
     
  15. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Here's more from the guy who wrote the first piece I posted. I find this to be a much more logical piece than his original one that only dismissed Wilkerson because of past remarks. This (maybe unlike the last one) is worth a read:

    The Weekly Standard

    One other point that I would make is that Al Libi wasn't waterboarded by the USA, if he was it was done by the Egyptians, so I would question if his story has anything to do with our use of waterboarding etc to get info on Iraq - AQ.

    Also for all the hand wringing about Powell's presentation and the Al Libi info, that wasn't included in his presentation was it? I may be mistaken on that (apologies if I am), but I don't think it was.
     
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    sorry....


    did you just SOURCE the Weekly Standard?






    really?






    as a 'source'








    ?
     
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    Oh man...I just READ IT....



    wow....a blogger, vs a reporter?

    got it.

    This dude is a fukcing MORON, no wonder he works for the weekly standard! He can't even confirm things he is claiming in powels speech. I'll give him the fact that he admits that, but DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMN.....he is commenting, and you treat it like he is a reporter.I stopped counting at the # of times he wrote "I don't know" in his 'rebuttal'


    this is kindof the problem in all this thing...the media etc.


    this man is bloviating an opinion. he is commenting on REPORTING. His job should be to prove the reporting right or wrong, not commnet on it.

    Stokes, thats OUR job!
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  18. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought it was an interesting counterpoint to Wilkerson's story (which itself lacks any sourcing) from an obviously biased source. I 100% do not think the blog in the weekly standard that I posted qualifies as any kind of serious journalism, I just thought it was a fairly coherent analysis of why what Wilkerson is implying doesn't necessarily all add up. It does NOT make me believe that these things didn't happen, just points out that some of his claims lack substance. I think in that context it was appropriate to post the blog even if it was from the Weekly Standard.
     
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    word.


    I'd say the math in this thing is getting rediculous, thats all.

    WMds + Plame + Torture / no WMds ever found = you've been lied to.
     
  20. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    (didn't see this post until after I posted my last one BTW)

    Wilkerson isn't a reporter either, and all of his claims are at this point based solely on his recollection. That certainly doesn't rise to the level of reporting either. What we've got is a guy who maybe has a axe to grind against Cheney (due to the spat between he and Powell) making claims without releasing the evidence he has supposedly collected to back his story up. He does it almost 5 years after he left government at a time when Cheney is being mean to his old boss.

    I certainly can admit what I posted was not reporting, rather just opinion (which is OK to post too!), but it points to the fact that too often what gets "reported" lacks proper sourcing/vetting to be considered real journalism, yet we take it at face value with no critical assessment of the reporting. This happens both ways of course. Cheney claims whatever he wants about the memos that won't be released and it is reported as news even though there's no reason to believe it (and based on history probably shouldn't be belived). That was all.
     

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