The plan looks like to get younger

[Sean Pa Patriot]

It really starting to look like, it is while not a huge rebuild mode, the retool mode is more likley... Graham, Samual, Branch, Koppen, and of course Seymoer all free agents in 2007... I think the plan is lock up our own guys, and retool thru the draft... Maybee the feeling is not tying up 3 million for a kicker, we may or may not need in 2006, because we could be 8-8, and retooling for 2007 is nin the best interest of the team ,not making a kicker the highest paid player.. Belichick and Pioli have a lifelong honeymoon in Foxboro, and probably could afford to take a yr off, while focusing on signing our own players...

 

[DaBruinz]

It really starting to look like, it is while not a huge rebuild mode, the retool mode is more likley... Graham, Samual, Branch, Koppen, and of course Seymoer all free agents in 2007... I think the plan is lock up our own guys, and retool thru the draft... Maybee the feeling is not tying up 3 million for a kicker, we may or may not need in 2006, because we could be 8-8, and retooling for 2007 is nin the best interest of the team ,not making a kicker the highest paid player.. Belichick and Pioli have a lifelong honeymoon in Foxboro, and probably could afford to take a yr off, while focusing on signing our own players...

Sean -
Have you looked at the Pats schedule for this year? For the Pats to go 8-8, one of two things will have happened. Either a season ending injury to Brady or BB ended up in the hospital with a coronary.

Yes, its been mentioned by myself and others that the Pats seem to be re-tooling. They have freed up a LOT of money and I honestly believe that they will be using that money to extend Seymour, Graham, Branch and Koppen. They will use the draft and free agency to replace the roster slots that have opened up and the pressure will be on the other players to step up. Players like Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Colvin, Vrabel, Wilson, Hobbs. There are 11 players on the field at any one time. They have to play as a team, focusing on their responsibilites. That is what didn't happen last year. After Harrison went down, Wilson was trying to do too much and it really hurt the secondary. It also hurt them that 6 of their DBs (4 of their 6 CBs) were on the IR by week 9. Hopefully, that was just a fluke.

This team survived in 2001 by bringing in free agents David Patten, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Bert Emanuel and Fred Coleman at WR. They also had only 1 legitimate receiving threat at TE in Wiggins. The Pats have Branch, Caldwell, Childress, and Johnson at WR (as well as McGrew, Stone, and Musinski) and Graham and Watson at WR. To me, that puts them already better than the 2001 team and the 2002 team for receiving options. Adding a WR and a TE or H-back via the draft would be nice. But not absolutely necessary.

Its only the 2nd week of free agency. The Patriots season doesn't start until September 10th. There is plenty of time for this team to bring in the pieces it needs to succeed.

 

[stinkypete]

I think that, if healthy, this team is still good enough to win the division. Miami brings alot of hype with Culpepper, but their defense is old and in decline. 10-11 wins will do it, and I still see a team capable of 10-11 wins.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

You might be right but Im just sucked into all of the doom and gloom..

 

[Ring 6]

Let me understand something.

We have 3 excellent OLBs. One of which is the oldest in the NFL. We have a LUXURY of having 3. The one who is the oldest LB in the NFL is released because he would cost an arm and a leg on the cap. We end up with 2 excellent OLBs.

We decide we do not want to have THE highest paid K in the NFL , but instead will accept a slight step down to dedicate more money elsewehere, gee, maybe to younger depth so we dont go through another year plucking DBs out of the stands?

We make a reasonable offer to our #2 WR and someone severely outbids us. We have already signed a potential replacement and will sign more.

How do these things add up to giving up on winning this year?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Not giving up on winning, just getting younger while giving up on vet experience is hard some times to take...

 

[Ring 6]

Not giving up on winning, just getting younger while giving up on vet experience is hard some times to take...

How are we giving up on vet experience?

Colvin and Vrabel are veterans.

Givens has only been in the league 4 years. We may replace him with a MORE experienced guy.

You cannot tell me that winning or losing often hinges on having a veteran K????? And we will probably have one.

How about we wait until we see how the 20 mill is spent before deciding how it wasnt spend means we are a worse team.

What happens if the money saved on these 3 ends up with us getting a stud corner, and a stud OL? We improve 2 critical areas by accepting decline in DEPTH at OLB, possible decline at KICKER, and less ceratinty at WR.

Doesnt that make us a better team, net of all of it?

 

[marty]

Not giving up on winning, just getting younger while giving up on vet experience is hard some times to take...

If you're talking about Willie's vet experience, I think we're covered with Tedy,
Colvin and Vrabes.

 

[Garbanza]

Sean -

This team survived in 2001 by bringing in free agents David Patten, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Bert Emanuel and Fred Coleman at WR. They also had only 1 legitimate receiving threat at TE in Wiggins. The Pats have Branch, Caldwell, Childress, and Johnson at WR (as well as McGrew, Stone, and Musinski) and Graham and Watson at WR. To me, that puts them already better than the 2001 team and the 2002 team for receiving options. Adding a WR and a TE or H-back via the draft would be nice. But not absolutely necessary.

Its only the 2nd week of free agency. The Patriots season doesn't start until September 10th. There is plenty of time for this team to bring in the pieces it needs to succeed.

Yes, it's March! The F.O. will address their needs to the best of their abilities - of that there is no doubt. But, I must amend something in your post - you say the Pats "survived" 2001 with unheralded FA's - Patten, Coleman, etc. Honestly, the Pats "survived" because of Brady and Vinatieri.

 

[jct]

Sure we lost a couple pieces.
But we will come back younger stronger and healthier.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

No, you guys - Andy is right on this one.

The Pats will cover all the bases well before opening day (or night, as the case may be!), but rest assured, whatever the Pats put on the field will represent an extremely well coached team. That is one of the hallmarks of a Bill Belichik team.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Partly right...

It really starting to look like, it is while not a huge rebuild mode, the retool mode is more likley... Graham, Samual, Branch, Koppen, and of course Seymoer all free agents in 2007... I think the plan is lock up our own guys, and retool thru the draft... Maybee the feeling is not tying up 3 million for a kicker, we may or may not need in 2006, because we could be 8-8, and retooling for 2007 is nin the best interest of the team ,not making a kicker the highest paid player.. Belichick and Pioli have a lifelong honeymoon in Foxboro, and probably could afford to take a yr off, while focusing on signing our own players...

I think it is way too simplistic to say the Pats are out to get younger. Sign our guys. Yes. I agree the Defense will get younger. They will acquire, probably via the draft, two starting quality LBs to add to their LB corp, Probably a SS also and maybe a CB or swing NT but I don't think so.

On Offense I see them trying to add some maturity, as I diagnose them to be TOO YOUNG on that side of the Ball. Youth and rooks make mistakes and the Offense playing rooks, made a lot of mistakes in Denver. Although they will add youth here as well, I suspect that we will see ex-starting, mature vets, added at WR, and RB as the primary upgrade path. And adda vet QB too.

My hypothesis, Keyshawn &/or Eric @ WR; Fred Taylor &/or Steve Davis @ RB. Jay Fiedler @ QB

On ST, I see maybe a young vet Kicker and and a rook competition and perhaps at Punter as well.And a unknown vet and a rook @ PR. BJ stays as a KR and WR...

In summary, Sign out guys. Draft for defensive youth in this defensive draft. Patch with vets on O to add maturity there. Draft Offensive skill replacements in 2007 Offensive draft.


What is your opinion?

 

[jct]

The sky is not falling.
Lots of teams have lost a ton in FA.
We need to get younger, stronger and healthier.

 

[Ring 6]

If we field a team that is better at roster spots 25-53 than last year, we have a better chance of winning the SB than if we only field one that is better at 1-24.

We have a large QUANTITY of needs. Off the top of my head, I'd say we need:

QB
RB
WR
WR
T
G
(maybe more OL)
DL
ILB
OLB
OLB
CB
CB
S

Thats 13 without really looking at upgrading who was here last year and still is.

We have 20 mill to do it with.
I would much rather see us closer to 1.5mill x 13 than to 6mill x 2 and 700kx11

 

[flutie2phelan]

....
We have 20 mill to do it with.
I would much rather see us closer to 1.5mill x 13 than to 6mill x 2 and 700kx11

You said it !

That's how we build the strong "middle-class" of the roster.

 

[pats1]

Andy, as always, you're right on the money. It's great to have someone with a clear head along with an above-and-beyond understanding of the game.

 

[gomezcat]

As much as there may be a move to make some of the positions a little younger, that is no bad thing. What is this year's $20 million cap space could, with irresponsible spending and signing bonuses (and consequent pay rises each year), easily become salary cap hell in a couple of years. That won't happen with the Pats. This team has won by looking at the bigger picture, i.e. the long term one. Yes, experience is necessary to win but how do young players ever get better unless they are given a chance to play? Keeping 34 year old OLBs on the downside of their career doesn't really do much for the long term health of the team, especially the development of younger players. That is particularly true when they want $4 Million a year and become more prone to injury. Young players have to be blooded and will make mistakes, but they will also learn.

 

[DaBruinz]

If we field a team that is better at roster spots 25-53 than last year, we have a better chance of winning the SB than if we only field one that is better at 1-24.

We have a large QUANTITY of needs. Off the top of my head, I'd say we need:

QB
RB
WR
WR
T
G
(maybe more OL)
DL
ILB
OLB
OLB
CB
CB
S

Thats 13 without really looking at upgrading who was here last year and still is.

We have 20 mill to do it with.
I would much rather see us closer to 1.5mill x 13 than to 6mill x 2 and 700kx11

Andy - You are a well respected guy around here. However, I believe your list is off. If you say that its "13 without really looking at upgrading" then how can you include a D-linemen and 2 OLBs?

The Pats have their entire D-line returning from last season. The only way they bring in someone else is if they are upgrading.

As for the need of 2 OLBs, I have to disagree there. They only really need 1. They also need an ILB. But that is possibly filled by Claridge.

Not sure how you can say they need a safety when they have Harrison, Wilson, Hawkins, Sanders, G. Scott (ERFA). They also have Randall Gay (ERFA) who can fill in at Free Safety.

Can you help me understand your thinking on this if you are saying "without really looking at upgrading?"

 

[Ring 6]

Andy - You are a well respected guy around here. However, I believe your list is off. If you say that its "13 without really looking at upgrading" then how can you include a D-linemen and 2 OLBs?

The Pats have their entire D-line returning from last season. The only way they bring in someone else is if they are upgrading.

As for the need of 2 OLBs, I have to disagree there. They only really need 1. They also need an ILB. But that is possibly filled by Claridge.

Not sure how you can say they need a safety when they have Harrison, Wilson, Hawkins, Sanders, G. Scott (ERFA). They also have Randall Gay (ERFA) who can fill in at Free Safety.

Can you help me understand your thinking on this if you are saying "without really looking at upgrading?"

Well it started with this:

"Off the top of my head, I'd say we need:"

DL- I guess the replacemnt of Klecko is an upgrade. I was talking more about guys who actually saw the field.
OLB- Willie is gone, Chad Brown is gone. We really have no one behind Vrabel (assuming he is outside)and Colvin who really played.
S- Harrison is hurt. Scott is always hurt. That leaves 3. We need one more to fill out the roster.

Perhaps you could call it upgrading to replace a guy who never saw the field with one who might. Im assuming we wont bank on those guys any way.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well it started with this:

"Off the top of my head, I'd say we need:"

DL- I guess the replacemnt of Klecko is an upgrade. I was talking more about guys who actually saw the field.
OLB- Willie is gone, Chad Brown is gone. We really have no one behind Vrabel (assuming he is outside)and Colvin who really played.
S- Harrison is hurt. Scott is always hurt. That leaves 3. We need one more to fill out the roster.

Perhaps you could call it upgrading to replace a guy who never saw the field with one who might. Im assuming we wont bank on those guys any way.

BTW, I agree about bringing in a Safety. I really hope they sign Tank Williams. That would allow them to play the double safety they like so much (vs. the SS/FS option) and move Wilson back to Corner. I think that this kills two birds with one stone. I'd love to see Michael Stone back as he was the Pats best Special Teams player last year.

Brown was an ILB with us. The Pats have TBC behind Colvin and whomever else they bring in. I think that Vrabel should stay at ILB with them developing Claridge and Beisel behind Vrabel and Bruschi.

My ideal for free agency would be for them to bring in the following:
WR: Shaun McDonald (RFA)
S: Tank Williams
TE: Aaron Shea
RB: Jonathan Wells or LaBrandon Toefield. Possibly James Mungro

If the Pats were to do that, they would open up so many options during the draft.

In the draft, if Lawson is off the board, I'd love for the Pats to take Richard Marshall and then draft Mark Anderson in the 3rd round with Joseph Addai or Daryn Colledge in the 2nd. If Jonathan Scott lasted until the end of the 3rd, I think he'd be a nice addition since he can play any O-line position and can Long Snap.