The Pioli to leave rumors gaining momentum

[BPF]

The "only" aspect of this that has any logic is the timing of a potential triple departure: Pioli, McDaniels, Cassel.

It's reasonable to assume Pioli likes the challenge of maintaining a perennial championship contender. "But," should he decide to leave, he would almost certainly be going into a rebuilding situation, one that needs some new blood fast. Being able to package his move with two people at "key" positions in his new organization would be a hellah smaht way to jump start your new program. "If" Pioli were to make a move, this would be an "ideal" time.

For example: let's consider the package deal concept using the Kansas City example from the article:
- Pioli can coordinate with McDaniel and Cassel, with the three presenting a united front to KC. Hire Pioli, dump Herm and hire McDaniel, trade for Cassel. A fairly straightforward prospect.
- KC currently is looking at the #3 pick in the draft, a useful tool.
--- Pioli can arrange for NE to Franchise Cassel and trade him to KC for the #3 pick; this is the salary cap model where Pioli gets KC out from under a Top 5 rookie contract.
--- Another model would use first round equivalency: KC trades their 2nd rounder in 2009 and their 2nd rounder in 2010, the equivalent of a 2009 3rd rounder (remember Goodall's fine for NE was a 1st Rd pick "or" a 2nd and 3rd; 2 + 3 = 1 in NFL draft math); this let's Pioli grab a Top 5 prospect this season to help Cassel, or even trade down with someone and pick up extra picks like NE does most drafts. Pioli strengthens his new club, while leaving Bob Kraft and BB a little thank you present (I for one would be seriously psyched to have KC's #2 in this draft, with another #2 in 2010). It's a good value move by Pioli for his new club, and he might even get something back by trading Brody Croyle or Tyler Thigpen, either of whom would be decent trade bait for teams like Detroit, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Carolina...Pioli might even get his 2nd back.
- KC has a legit #1 WR and a TE who can fill the "Welker" chain mover role. Gaffney is UFA, sign him to give Mattyice some continuity and you have the nucleus of an excellent receiving corps. LJ should have at least one more good year to work with. KC drafted a Rd one LT last season, take Herm out of the equation and factor in McDaniels and Cassel, you immediately have a competitive offense.
- Now which former NE DC is on the hotseat as a HC this season? Okay both, but I'm thinking Romeo. Does anyone here seriously think Romeo gets another NFL HC shot? Here's a chance to rebuild his career and work with people who respect and trust him (nice change that would be for him - Phil Savage, sheesh!). KC's defense has some solid talent to work with, if Piolo could land Romeo and give him his head, KC would have a nasty D fairly quickly.
- KC has a solid ST's corps, hire a good ST's coach and your good.

"If" Pioli decides to move, this would set him up in a good situation. You also have to think that McDaniels and Cassel would both see the advantages to teaming up with Pioli for their next moves. The KC gig would be a serious win-win-win move for the threesome if they could make it together.

Things are never this tidy and easy in real life. You've put a lot of thought into it and it all seems very logical but as they say "the best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

I also can't envision Pioli ever leaving the Pats from comments he's made in the past. Of course he reserves the right to change his mind and anything is possible but with his philosophy on paying players and the value he places on continuity over money I don't see him going anywhere. He'd also look like a hypocrite if he did.

 

[mgteich]

Yup, and the maiden voyage of the Titanic was great except for the iceberg. Of course, the issue is timing. Good point to add Romeo!

Pioli, Josh, Romeo, and Cassel and all that KC will need to give up is a couple of 2nd's?

Pioli could then use his #3 pick to trade down recouping the picks.

There are other teams that also could be interested. Maybe Seatlle will renew its offer.

The "only" aspect of this that has any logic is the timing of a potential triple departure: Pioli, McDaniels, Cassel.

 

[cincipatsfan]

First, I think it is harder for a team to stay on top like the Pats have year after year rather than go from the dregs of the league to one of the top teams. Every year it seems that there are a handful of teams that go from 6 or less wins to playoff teams. The question is whether Dimitroff or Parcells can maintain the success year after year. Sometimes, it is an one year bounce (the Browns last year for example). Only the Pats, Steelers, and Colts have consistently been Super Bowl contenders over the past decade or so while others come and go. It takes a lot of talent at the top to maintain that.

Second, Pioli may or may not be considering other opportunities. He may not though. His priorities may not be total control and all the limelight. He may want to be part of history here and try to win two or three more Super Bowls before the end of Belichick's and Brady's run. His family has grown roots here and he has kids in school. Maybe he rather not uproot his family. He also pretty much has a job for life in New England. Not so in any other situation unless he recreates the magic he has had here. Some of that is out of his control.

Third, I think Pioli is utilized as much as he would anywhere. He would have the same exact responsibilities he has here. He and Belichick are co decision makers here, but he is still solely responsible for the scouting, salary cap, and other GM responsibilities. The only difference is that Pioli would have final say, but from most indications Pioli and Belichick are usually on the same page with most personnel decisions and rarely does his decisions get overturned. Belichick never overrules him and forces his will on Pioli either. If they cannot agree on a player in the draft, they move to the next guy and it is a two way street.

Fourth, Pioli does have a perfect situation here. He has a partner in his head coach who he is totally in tune with. Pioli has no guarantees with his next coach even if he hires McDaniels. Mangini has shown that just because you learn at the foot of God doesn't mean you will perform like God when given the opportunity. Kraft is one of the best owners in terms of his working relationship with Belichick and Pioli. No guarantees he won't have an owner who gets meddlesome with a bad season or two.

Pioli could very well leave, but I don't think the situation is anywhere like you portray it. Pioli isn't sitting in his office twiddling his thumbs while Belichick does all the work. Belichick doesn't have the time to do GM responsibilities and all of them fall on Pioli. The only difference between here and anywhere else is that Pioli has co-final say and he would have final say somewhere else. Considering he and Belichick are of the same mind on most things, I don't see a huge difference.

Bingo. I think this post nails it. Well said Rob.

 

[DaBruinz]

So there is one legitimate source on Pioli possibly leaving, and that is Pioli. Only the FO knows what transactions are being considered with regard to the players, the offseason and the draft. Only the coaches can properly assess the play of the players.

So, why bother posting?

The site is for speculation. Of course no one can have a legitmate source except for Pioli.

What we can speculate about is whether it makes sense for Pioli to consider options, what those option might be, and how that might affect other decisionos (Josh and Matt).

SHEESH, MG. Did someone pi$$ in your cheerios this morning? No where did I attack ANYONE'S speculation. I was pointing out the similarities to 2 years ago when the Giants GM position was going to be open and everyone had Pioli pegged for that position. Some media sources were STATING (not speculating) that it was a done deal.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Just food for thought...

Perhaps Dimitrioff took the Falcons job -- remember this was a *bad* team when he arrived -- because he saw no room for him to advance with the Patriots? Meaning that Pioli was sticking around for the long haul, so Dimitrioff had to look elsewhere for opportunities.

I would think if Pioli was getting antsy, Dimitrioff would have easily waited another year to get a crack at managing a Patriots squad with Brady and Moss.

Couldn't the same thing be said for the McDaniels/Belichick situation? Doesn't McD want to be the coach in NE when Bill decides he's done...?

 

[BradyBranch39]

Bingo. I think this post nails it. Well said Rob.

ditto

/////

 

[DaBruinz]

Just food for thought...

Perhaps Dimitrioff took the Falcons job -- remember this was a *bad* team when he arrived -- because he saw no room for him to advance with the Patriots? Meaning that Pioli was sticking around for the long haul, so Dimitrioff had to look elsewhere for opportunities.

I would think if Pioli was getting antsy, Dimitrioff would have easily waited another year to get a crack at managing a Patriots squad with Brady and Moss.

Atlanta was never as bad as people claimed. They had a lot of good talent on their defense and on their offense. They were just missing a QB and a compliment to Norwood in the running game. Dimitroff hit the jackpot with Ryan and scored big getting Michael Turner.

 

[Fencer]

My guess is that Pioli is putting the Krafts on notice he wants to be paid like a franchise's #1 guy.

What the Krafts do about that in tough economic times is open for speculation. My guess is that they pay up.

Actually, tough economic times could also be a REASON for Pioli to insist on more money.

 

[alamo]

One thing that gave me pause for thought regarding Pioli was the very first Sunday of the season. It could - repeat total speculation could - indicate BB and Pioli are not always on the same page.

Remember the highly publicized situation after Brady went down? Two veteran quarterbacks were in Foxboro the next day (though the timing of when they were called is unclear). But clearly either BB changed his mind about getting a veteran backup, or BB and Pioli weren't on the same page.

Food for thought, and just as much speculation as everything already posted here, both on the "Pioli will stay" size and "Pioili will leave" side. There is absolutely no way for anyone to know for sure. For all we know, Pioli knows Belichick has decided to retire and doesn't want to stay here without him (how's that for a rumor ).

 

[spacecrime]

This reads like a PFT ,and not a PFW, article.

If Pioli decides to move on (and he might) I doubt very much whether he'll resort to dropping silly little 'disrespected' rumors to the gossip grape vine.

He won't, but that doesn't mean he didn't leave because he wanted to build his own team. He'll jut be professional about leaving.

 

[DaBruinz]

My guess is that Pioli is putting the Krafts on notice he wants to be paid like a franchise's #1 guy.

What the Krafts do about that in tough economic times is open for speculation. My guess is that they pay up.

Actually, tough economic times could also be a REASON for Pioli to insist on more money.

So, you think that the Krafts don't pay Pioli like he's the franchise's #1 guy? And you base this on what? All the reports about how much Pioli is making? Oh wait, the only thing that is more secret that BB and Pioli's contract numbers are the Nuclear Launch codes that the President carries around.

Also, these "hard economic times" aren't hitting everyone. Certainly not the Krafts who just shelled out 10s of millions on Patriots place..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

For all we know, Pioli knows Belichick has decided to retire and doesn't want to stay here without him (how's that for a rumor ).

Sweet! Great rumor! Psst, heh Clayton did you hear... :gossip:

 

[DaBruinz]

One thing that gave me pause for thought regarding Pioli was the very first Sunday of the season. It could - repeat total speculation could - indicate BB and Pioli are not always on the same page.

Remember the highly publicized situation after Brady went down? Two veteran quarterbacks were in Foxboro the next day (though the timing of when they were called is unclear). But clearly either BB changed his mind about getting a veteran backup, or BB and Pioli weren't on the same page.

Food for thought, and just as much speculation as everything already posted here, both on the "Pioli will stay" size and "Pioili will leave" side. There is absolutely no way for anyone to know for sure. For all we know, Pioli knows Belichick has decided to retire and doesn't want to stay here without him (how's that for a rumor ).

The two "veteran" QBs were Chris Simms and Tim Rattay. Neither had physicals or were put through any workouts with the team. And neither actually met with BB.

In all likelihood, the reason neither was given a physcial or put through any workouts is that they failed some part of the interview process along the way. Or, as you said, BB changed his mind and felt that bringing in someone to push Matt would have backfired. Either way, I don't see this as the two not being on the same page.. But I can see how it could be construed as such.

 

[Rob0729]

One thing that gave me pause for thought regarding Pioli was the very first Sunday of the season. It could - repeat total speculation could - indicate BB and Pioli are not always on the same page.

Remember the highly publicized situation after Brady went down? Two veteran quarterbacks were in Foxboro the next day (though the timing of when they were called is unclear). But clearly either BB changed his mind about getting a veteran backup, or BB and Pioli weren't on the same page.

Food for thought, and just as much speculation as everything already posted here, both on the "Pioli will stay" size and "Pioili will leave" side. There is absolutely no way for anyone to know for sure. For all we know, Pioli knows Belichick has decided to retire and doesn't want to stay here without him (how's that for a rumor ).

Both Simms and Rattay were scheduled to visit BEFORE Brady went down. The Pats decided that after Brady went down that bringing either in for a workout would only create an unneeded QB controversy and potentially hurt the progression of Cassel. It had nothing to do with a disagreement between Belichick and Pioli. That was already explained.

Let's not be like the media and create controversy where there is none.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I for one would wish the man well ... especially if he feels stagnant in his position. I know Belichick and Pioli have worked well together but I think Bill would do fine and perhaps even better without Pioli ... just a hunch ... nothing more. The organizational part of what Pioli does is A+ ... the FA list and all the scouting are superb. I have just always had a hunch Belichick would have chosen differently here and there ... like I said ... just a hunch.

 

[Fencer]

So, you think that the Krafts don't pay Pioli like he's the franchise's #1 guy? And you base this on what?

Combination of two things:

1. The reports that he's negotiating publicly to a very slight degree have a credible feel to them, IMO.

2. The reports that he doesn't want to leave have a credible feel too.

Put those together and it is reasonable to hypothesize that he wants to stay for a bigger paycheck.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

He'd be folish not to "check the market" every year he can. I don't personally think he's going anywhere. The "sourcing" and "whispers from inside the org." parts of the story sound chessy and rumorish. But the concept of the story is not unrealistic.

 

[DaBruinz]

Combination of two things:

1. The reports that he's negotiating publicly to a very slight degree have a credible feel to them, IMO.

2. The reports that he doesn't want to leave have a credible feel too.

Put those together and it is reasonable to hypothesize that he wants to stay for a bigger paycheck.

First of all, there haven't been any reports that he's negotiating publically. All the reports are SPECULATION that Pioli may go somewhere.

They aren't just reports that he doesn't want to leave. Its fact. It's come right from the horse's mouth.

So, that just leaves you with theory that he's negotiating publically and you are using that to justify another theory that its reasonable to think Pioli is trying to get more money from Kraft.

Its a circular argument at best because your using one theory to justify the other.

 

[stcjones]

Only an idiot doesn't consider his options. To think that Pioli isn't considering leaving is riduculous. However, we don't knowm his personal priorities. Kraft can offer more than others to Pioli as an executive in corporate America. But these opportunities don't involve football full-time, or even near full-time.

Pioli can decide to stay as long as Belichick, or as long as Brady stays. Or may decide to say for as long as the Kraft's own the franchise. But make no mistake, Pioli is not growing in his job and the challenges at the patriots do not demand someone as good as Pioli. Pioli can continue to watch his assistants go off and turn around franchises, and also see his father-in-law do so. He has do decide what he wants for himself and his family.

To put in another way, Pioli is a superstar that isn't utilized anywhere near as much as he would be used elsewhere (e.g KC).

Finally, this is a special time to consider. He can leave and take Josh with him, and probably Cassel also (if Cassel want it, if not in 2009, then in in 2010).

Good realistic post. If he gets the chance to take over a franchise and build it to success from the bottom up, and get full credit in doing so, I think he has to consider it. He is a young guy and has years and years left........someone in desperate need out there (KC, Detroit etc) would PAY BIG BUCKS to lure him there as well......This is not as far fetched as it seems.....That having been said, I truly hope Scott is here for the rest of his career.....Brilliant guy.... To say that he doesn't feel like he's gotten enough credit is ridiculous.....all anyone ever talks about is BB/PIOLI when talking about NE's success....I hope he truly doesn't feel that way!

 

[stcjones]

I for one would wish the man well ... especially if he feels stagnant in his position. I know Belichick and Pioli have worked well together but I think Bill would do fine and perhaps even better without Pioli ... just a hunch ... nothing more. The organizational part of what Pioli does is A+ ... the FA list and all the scouting are superb. I have just always had a hunch Belichick would have chosen differently here and there ... like I said ... just a hunch.

"perhaps even better without Pioli ... just a hunch"

Appreciate the opinion.......I disagree with it. I think Pioli is an intricate part to our success......losing him would hurt us a bit.....just my hunch! (Haven't used that word in awhile!!! Thanks