The Pats did not "reach" for Mayo or Wheatley

[Ochmed Jones]

The term "reach" is used by drafniks of which I'm one. But I always scoff at the term. We have no idea where these players were rated on NFL teams boards as players. We only know how the publishers if mocks and draft rankings have players ranked. And they. like us, are not responsible for actually choosing players or are accountable if the players they have ranked don't make it.

So, I always give the teams the benefit of the doubt.

I personally prefer the term "overdrafting" and Mayo was overdrafted, period. After Mayo, the rest of the Pats draft was respectable.

I just do not understand the fascination with a guy not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap. However I like the rest of the Pats picks, especially Wheatley and Slater.

 

[zippo59]

The Mayo pick reminds me a little of when the Lions took Ernie Sims at 9 and everyone thought it was this huge reach. He has turned out to be a pretty good player for them and Belichick came out later and said he really liked him as well. Coincidentally (or maybe not) there were also rumors that Detroit would take Mayo at their pick in the first, and Kiper said some teams liked Mayo better than Rivers FWIW.

 

[BHSL2]

Re: The Pats did not \"reach\" for Mayo or Wheatley

KR in the NFL is very different. We already have Hobbs as a KR and this kid is no different than Hobbs.

I will continue to suggest that it is a wasted pick and l see what happens in camp.

So basically you're admitting that you don't like the guy because he wasn't a big name, and you have seen all of his tape so your opinion overrides that of pioli/belichick's.

Lol. Watch the tapes the FO watches and learn our system then get back to us.

 

[CoachK]

I think Mayo was a decent choice but can't agree that Wheately is not a reach,IMO there are several better athletes than Wheately still on the board and Wheately should have been no earlier than mid/late 3rd but it was a typical BB wild pick so we will see how it pans out.

"Typical BB wild pick" ?????????????????????

If only the rest of us had your football skills and knowledge, we would have realized this the moment the choice was made.

We'll all try harder next year, so that BB can't pull the wool over our eyes!!

Thankfully, this board has you to set the record staright.

 

[letekro]

I personally prefer the term "overdrafting" and Mayo was overdrafted, period. After Mayo, the rest of the Pats draft was respectable.

I just do not understand the fascination with a guy not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap. However I like the rest of the Pats picks, especially Wheatley and Slater.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Willis regained his college eligibility, reentered the draft, and was available at #10.

The fact is, he was the best player available in the draft at a position of need. Whether he compares favorably or unfavorably to Willis is completely irrelevant. The Pats had no chance to draft Willis last year, and they certainly had no chance to draft him this year.

 

[PonyExpress]

I personally prefer the term "overdrafting" and Mayo was overdrafted, period. After Mayo, the rest of the Pats draft was respectable.

I just do not understand the fascination with a guy not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap. However I like the rest of the Pats picks, especially Wheatley and Slater.

OJ,
I would really appreciate your scouting report on Mayo. Just a straight up scouting report, as if he had never been drafted by the Pats. Your opinion is highly valued.

 

[sebman2112]

I don't believe either was really a "reach", and I think they're both good players.

The thoughts I've had on these two picks:

Mayo: I never really thought he seemed like a great fit for the Patriots system in particular (most scouting reports and the other SEC guy seemed to agree), but maybe I was thinking about the SILB position a little to much. At WILB I can see how his speed & coverage ability could be huge, and his intelligence in the film room must have really won BB over for him to pull the trigger on a LB that high in the draft. So, he'll likely be able to take over for Bruschi, run the defense (in a few years), bring some much needs speed, athleticism, coverage ability, and pop (he's a hitter too) to the middle of the defense. I kind of worry about the injury history, but guys who were considered very durable in college (IE: Chad Jackson) can suffer a serious injury or two in the pros, and have their career's take a hit.

Wheatley: Good speed & quickness, intelligent, good ball skills, nice footwork, and was impressive during workouts. I could see this guy developing into a multi-year starter, but his health will be the key. Honestly, I don't like the idea of this kid already having a fused wrist (and other injury problems), but maybe the injuries are behind him? I hope so, as the Patriots could use his skills at CB, and as a KR (I'm not sure about submitting him to the violence that is KR duty in the NFL though).

Their other picks:
Crable: I like the pick, and he has obvious pass rushing ability at OLB. The only real concern I've had with Crable is his thin calves, and somewhat small trunk for his size, but I'm sure with some time in the system he'll develop that lower body. I thought Avril had more appeal to the system, but I'm now wondering if he didn't interview well, or had some other issues I wasn't aware of...? In any case, Shawn should be a solid addition, but only time will tell.

O'Connell: Didn't expect that pick at all, and probably should have paid a little more attention to the QB's in the draft. From what I have seen, he does look like an interesting prospect, and you can always use a strong backup QB. Hopefully the Patriots will not have to use him though.

Wilhite: I almost put this kid on my list of prospects, but I thought his issues, cone (7.17), shuttle (4.41), and lack of INT's would take him off the Patriots board. The issues I'm talking about: "Poor awareness, Sub par hands and ball skills, Not a great tackler, Work ethic has been questioned, Needs technique work". So, I'm pretty iffy on this kid, but I do like his speed, and some of his problems could be coaches up.

Slater: Good kick returner, and maybe his addition means they will not have to submit Hobbs or Wheatley to return duty? He's also a good gunner on coverage teams, and could see playing time as a backup DB/WR. NFLDraftScout list his 2007 return average at 30.9 yards per return (30 returns), which is very good.

Ruud: This is a 6th round pick, you can't really expect much, but I can see some potential here. I'm thinking NE will try him out at ILB, not OLB though. Also, that's a great name for a LB...."BO RUUUUUDD!!"

 

[PonyExpress]

I don't believe either was really a "reach", and I think they're both good players.

The thoughts I've had on these two picks:

Mayo: I never really thought he seemed like a great fit for the Patriots system in particular (most scouting reports and the other SEC guy seemed to agree), but maybe I was thinking about the SILB position a little to much. At WILB I can see how his speed & coverage ability could be huge, and his intelligence in the film room must have really won BB over for him to pull the trigger on a LB that high in the draft. So, he'll likely be able to take over for Bruschi, run the defense (in a few years), bring some much needs speed, athleticism, coverage ability, and pop (he's a hitter too) to the middle of the defense. I kind of worry about the injury history, but guys who were considered very durable in college (IE: Chad Jackson) can suffer a serious injury or two in the pros, and have their career's take a hit.

I think you hit on it. BB is looking for a LB to be his eyes on the field, the leader of the team and the lockerroom, able to mentally carry different game plans each week. There are plenty of elite physical specimens BB has passed on. Mayo must be very special between the ears. He is obviously a very charismatic guy, and a very smart guy. Combine that with elite physical tools, and that is the kind of ILB BB is willing to pay big money to. It's obvious that Willis is more of a heat seeking missile and a more sure tackler, a force of nature. But Mayo, as BB stated, has very good understanding of defensive concepts, and that makes him an elite prospect for our system.

Wheatley: Good speed & quickness, intelligent, good ball skills, nice footwork, and was impressive during workouts. I could see this guy developing into a multi-year starter, but his health will be the key. Honestly, I don't like the idea of this kid already having a fused wrist (and other injury problems), but maybe the injuries are behind him? I hope so, as the Patriots could use his skills at CB, and as a KR (I'm not sure about submitting him to the violence that is KR duty in the NFL though).

Seb, watch his combine drills on NFL.com's profiles. Personally, I was blown away. His hands are excellent, he is very natural in all his movements. The fused wrist has no impact on his ball skills. It seems like he had no problem using his wrist in press coverage. His other injury was a foot fracture, from which he recovered enought to blow up at the combine.
Their other picks:
Crable: I like the pick, and he has obvious pass rushing ability at OLB. The only real concern I've had with Crable is his thin calves, and somewhat small trunk for his size, but I'm sure with some time in the system he'll develop that lower body. I thought Avril had more appeal to the system, but I'm now wondering if he didn't interview well, or had some other issues I wasn't aware of...? In any case, Shawn should be a solid addition, but only time will tell.

I agree with your concerns. Crable needs at least 10 lbs in his lower half, while maintaining his speed. I actually think extra muscle in his legs will make him quicker/smoother in his change of direction. At 255 or 260 he will be a beast. A project pick, but with upside. His on-field motor is great.

Wilhite: I almost put this kid on my list of prospects, but I thought his issues, cone (7.17), shuttle (4.41), and lack of INT's would take him off the Patriots board. The issues I'm talking about: "Poor awareness, Sub par hands and ball skills, Not a great tackler, Work ethic has been questioned, Needs technique work". So, I'm pretty iffy on this kid, but I do like his speed, and some of his problems could be coaches up.

I just don't see it with Wilhite.

Slater: Good kick returner, and maybe his addition means they will not have to submit Hobbs or Wheatley to return duty? He's also a good gunner on coverage teams, and could see playing time as a backup DB/WR. NFLDraftScout list his 2007 return average at 30.9 yards per return (30 returns), which is very good.

Who knows, really...

Ruud: This is a 6th round pick, you can't really expect much, but I can see some potential here. I'm thinking NE will try him out at ILB, not OLB though. Also, that's a great name for a LB...."BO RUUUUUDD!!"

Bleh.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[sebman2112]

I think you hit on it. BB is looking for a LB to be his eyes on the field, the leader of the team and the lockerroom, able to mentally carry different game plans each week. There are plenty of elite physical specimens BB has passed on. Mayo must be very special between the ears. He is obviously a very charismatic guy, and a very smart guy. Combine that with elite physical tools, and that is the kind of ILB BB is willing to pay big money to. It's obvious that Willis is more of a heat seeking missile and a more sure tackler, a force of nature. But Mayo, as BB stated, has very good understanding of defensive concepts, and that makes him an elite prospect for our system.

Seems about accurate, and we'll have to see how everything works out. Again, I wasn't sure about this guy for NE's system, but I'm also aware of the fact that BB's only taking a very special football player that high in the draft, since the cost associated isn't a drop in the bucket, and he hadn't selected a single LB in the first three rounds going in.

Seb, watch his combine drills on NFL.com's profiles. Personally, I was blown away. His hands are excellent, he is very natural in all his movements. The fused wrist has no impact on his ball skills. It seems like he had no problem using his wrist in press coverage. His other injury was a foot fracture, from which he recovered enought to blow up at the combine.

This is 2112 man, do you honestly think I haven't seen his workouts yet? I've got DVD's of all the Combine footage, lol.

I agree with your concerns. Crable needs at least 10 lbs in his lower half, while maintaining his speed. I actually think extra muscle in his legs will make him quicker/smoother in his change of direction. At 255 or 260 he will be a beast. A project pick, but with upside. His on-field motor is great.

Well, I agree that Crable could be a good player with some added weight and development, but it seems you're forgetting that he was somewhat inconsistent during his college career, and his motor has actually been questioned. Still think it was a good pick though, and there's a nice amount of upside here. His massive increase in production in 2007 is a good sign that he's likely on the upswing, too.

I just don't see it with Wilhite.

Yea, I'm really not sure about this kid, but we'll have to wait and see.

Who knows, really...

Seems like a better option than using Wheatley (who does have a significant injury history) at Kick returner. Did you watch him? Scored TD's on kick returns two weeks straight in 2007.

Bleh.

Hey, at least I'll get to say "BO RUUUUUDD!!" during the preseason...

 

[Metaphors]

OJ,
I would really appreciate your scouting report on Mayo. Just a straight up scouting report, as if he had never been drafted by the Pats. Your opinion is highly valued.

Personally I find his opinion to be a reach. His opinion isn't very productive and doesn't seem to fit into the board's scheme. He does have a great motor, getting his "I hate Mayo" message in an amazing number of threads. However, lots of better opinions available at this point, so I'll pass.

 

[TealSox]

they were both slight reaches....but they filled team needs, which makes those reaches disappear

when u get a guy u like at a position u like, and that guy pans out, they u havnt reached

I think this sums it up perfectly.

I have no problem admitting that both were reaches. With Mayo, I think the Pats knew the 49ers were actively trying to move up to get him. Meanwhile, it sounded like they had Rivers name written on the card right before Cincy snatched him up. They didn't want to miss their next best option by messing around and moving down again.

Wheatley must have some qualities that BB/Pioli saw that made them think he can pop right into the system. Maybe they are looking for a guy to cover the slot and that is why he and Wilhite (sp?) were selected by the Pats. Remember, Samuel started out playing nickel and I remember a number of fans write that he would be nothing more than that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: The Pats did not \"reach\" for Mayo or Wheatley

KR in the NFL is very different. We already have Hobbs as a KR and this kid is no different than Hobbs.

I will continue to suggest that it is a wasted pick and lsee what happens in camp.

Yes, we know that you will continue in your ignorance that it was a waste of a pick because we all know you are a bandwagon fan who didn't actually watch th play-offs last year when the Pats had to rely on Maroney to do the kick returning because Hobbs was injured.

Did you put your clear bias aside for even ONE second to think that maybe, just maybe, BB wanted some KR depth as well as depth at CB? Hell, this was a prevalent theme amongst all the people doing Mocks for the Pats on this board. Are you seriously going to imply that the Pats SHOULDN'T have drafted another KR? Are you implying that you in your extremely finite wisdom know more than people who've been followign the Pats for 2+ decades? Or that you know more than the coach does?

 

[DaBruinz]

I personally prefer the term "overdrafting" and Mayo was overdrafted, period. After Mayo, the rest of the Pats draft was respectable.

I just do not understand the fascination with a guy not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap. However I like the rest of the Pats picks, especially Wheatley and Slater.

Not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap? BS. talk about one of the most absurd and totally untrue things you've ever spouted.

Mayo may not be as good as Willis, but Willis is an above average 3-4 ILB. He was MUCH BETTER playing in the 49ers 4-3 last year than in their 3-4. IF you'd watched any of their games, you'd have seen that.

 

[makoute]

Not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap? BS. talk about one of the most absurd and totally untrue things you've ever spouted.

Mayo may not be as good as Willis, but Willis is an above average 3-4 ILB. He was MUCH BETTER playing in the 49ers 4-3 last year than in their 3-4. IF you'd watched any of their games, you'd have seen that.

Could it be because they're the 49ers, and just don't have the players up front.