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The Pats did not "reach" for Mayo or Wheatley

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PonyExpress, Apr 27, 2008.

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  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    The three best, and most accurate current NFL draft analysts (IMO) are Gosselin, Nawrocki and Mayock.

    In their pre draft top 100 rankings, Mayock had Mayo at #8, Nawricki at #15 and Gosselin at #19. That averages out to #14. Mayo was a "fast riser" as the draft approached. The Pats took him at #10, which is where they had to take him to ensure they could get him ahead of Denver at #12, which was looking for an Al Wilson clone, and Detroit at #15.

    As for Wheatley, in their predraft rankings Mayock had him at #64, Nawrocki at #80 and Gosselin at #96. That averages out to #80. He was also a fast riser as the draft approached. The Pats took him at #62, ahead of several teams who likely coveted him.

    Mayo and Wheatley are not only quality players, but IMO represented solid value for their draft slots.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
  2. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I would add that Mayock is the only one of the three analysts to play DB in the NFL (or probably at any level), and played under BB to boot.
  3. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    I think Mayo was a decent choice but can't agree that Wheately is not a reach,IMO there are several better athletes than Wheately still on the board and Wheately should have been no earlier than mid/late 3rd but it was a typical BB wild pick so we will see how it pans out.
  4. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    Not to say your opinion in this matter is meaningless, but it's meaningless. I mean how much game film of college cornerbacks have you watched this year? Mayock's comments and the write-up of him at NFL.com has everything that you would want in a corner except height: elite speed, change of direction, ball skills, confidence, and smarts.
  5. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats pretty clearly viewed Mayo as a rare player, and he legitimately could have gone as early as 11.

    As for Wheatley, who knows? He was one of those players who I would read about and wonder "where's the catch"? Why ranked so low? The writeups on his skills are drool-worthy, and his measurables are tremendous. Yes he's small, but so were higher-rated CBs like Flowers and Porter. So I concluded that the injury was the problem, and likely a serious one. If his health really isn't an issue, he's a fine pick at 62 -- especially taking into account that he was probably the single best KR left in the draft.
  6. Seels

    Seels Rookie

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    I think both were very slight reaches, but here's the thing:

    With Mayo, before and after he was picked, hell the general theme of the first round, was Oline and front seven on D. Mayo was the best person defensive player left on the board after Cinci took Rivers, so while it MAY have been a slight reach, the Pats couldn't exactly afford to find out if Denver, Detroit, or one of the other teams right past them that has trouble on D would have taken him.

    For Wheatley, the end of the first round and 2nd round were loaded with CB's coming off the board. Maybe the Pats could have waited another 7 picks. Maybe not. The apparently wanted him for a reason though, and got him.

    The only dissapointment I have right now is that they didn't get Groves before the Jags did, but I'm guessing if they didn't it's because Bill didn't think he was worth it (same reason we didn't take Connor).

    The amount of people dissapointed or crying about this draft is pretty hysterical. It's the same thing EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
  7. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    they were both slight reaches....but they filled team needs, which makes those reaches disappear

    when u get a guy u like at a position u like, and that guy pans out, they u havnt reached
  8. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    Re: The Pats did not \"reach\" for Mayo or Wheatley

    KR in the NFL is very different. We already have Hobbs as a KR and this kid is no different than Hobbs.

    I will continue to suggest that it is a wasted pick and lsee what happens in camp.
  9. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    Re: The Pats did not \"reach\" for Mayo or Wheatley

    if he becomes a Starting corner for us either opposite hobbs or in the slot, it was a GREAT pick

    not often u get a rookie be starting on an 18-1 team
  10. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rookie

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    I dont like the fact that we got LESS than a 3rd rd pick to move back to 10. It seems to me we wanted to give Ellis to NO, and I think we should have had cincy bid against them to up the ante. I mean 2 picks earlier they were offering their first and second in todays draft AND their first next year....I cant believe we got LESS than a 3rd from this same team for the 2nd best DT.
  11. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    This is such a good point. Wheatley measured in at 5'9 5/8'' 187 lbs. McKelvin was 5'10 1/8'' 190 lbs. So the difference between Wheatley and McKelvin was 1/2 inch and 3 lbs. And everybody would have been happy with McKelvin's size. It's laughable. Also, Jenkins is 5'10 1/4''.

    Meanwhile Wheatley is faster, just as quick, a better leaper, played better competition, more of a leader, smarter, and more productive with better ball skills, despite having recovered from a serious wrist injury.

    This kid is going to start for the Pats and start quick. Like midway next season.
  12. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    Fair market value depends on the market. The Pats have three third-round picks, so why did they take a guy who was projected to go in the 4th round when they could have used one of their third round picks on him?

    Because they a) obviously loved him, and b) felt that one of the 6 teams that pick between 62 and 69 were going to take him. So if someone else was going to take him at 65, the Pats had to take him at 62. That's not a reach.

    As for the Saints trade...you're trading for the player not the pick. Look at it that way. They might have had Dorsey #1 on their board, so when you factor in #1 talent at #5 contract, you get a much much better offer.
  13. flasox27

    flasox27 Rookie

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    If you look at the value chart, it was a fair trade.
  14. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    To follow up on Ponys thoughts, here are the drafted CB's from yesterday-

    11 Leodis McKelvin Troy 5’ 10 190
    16 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee State 6’ 2 184
    20 Aqib Talib Kansas 6’ 1 202
    25 Mike Jenkins South Florida 5’ 10 197
    27 Antoine Cason Arizona 6’ 0 191
    35 Brandon Flowers Virginia Tech 5’ 10 189
    40 Tracy Porter Indiana 5’ 11 188
    60 Patrick Lee Auburn 6’ 0 200
    62 Terrence Wheatley Colorado 5’ 9 ½ 187
    63 Terrell Thomas Southern Cal 6’ 1 202
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    All that matters is that they represent value to the PATRIOTS where they were drafted.

    It doesn't matter if the rest of the NFL had them projected a few spots behind... and as if often said, if there's a player that you want you need to take them BEFORE they are projected to go.

    The money saved dropping back from #7 to #10 is likely money that can be used to retain a free agent. That's something people need to consider as well.
  16. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    I like this pick. Wheatly was the best CB on the board IMO.
  17. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The term "reach" is used by drafniks of which I'm one. But I always scoff at the term. We have no idea where these players were rated on NFL teams boards as players. We only know how the publishers if mocks and draft rankings have players ranked. And they. like us, are not responsible for actually choosing players or are accountable if the players they have ranked don't make it.

    So, I always give the teams the benefit of the doubt.
  19. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

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    I agree. The other term that gets frequently mis-used in conjuction with the last few weeks of the draft is "Fast Riser". Many seem to think that it has a negative connotation. My understanding of the draft process is that in the last week, or two before the draft all the evaluations, interviews, tests, etc have been done and teams start building their individual boards. Prior to this time the mediots, based on their studies and conversations (and some of these conversations are w/ scouts/ personnel people) have built their ratings. Now as the new information (and disinformation) finds its way out to the mediots they are forced to adjust their earlier ranking.
    My question has always been. Which is the truer ranking? Haven't they just risen to their true level?
  20. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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    Agree with you 100%.. Maybe this money will help in the future with Wilfork or bring in Ty Law this year..

    Mayo was the right pick at the right spot. He was going #12 or #15.. both teams were in need of lb help..
  21. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I personally prefer the term "overdrafting" and Mayo was overdrafted, period. After Mayo, the rest of the Pats draft was respectable.

    I just do not understand the fascination with a guy not good enough to carry Willis' jockstrap. However I like the rest of the Pats picks, especially Wheatley and Slater.
  22. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    The Mayo pick reminds me a little of when the Lions took Ernie Sims at 9 and everyone thought it was this huge reach. He has turned out to be a pretty good player for them and Belichick came out later and said he really liked him as well. Coincidentally (or maybe not) there were also rumors that Detroit would take Mayo at their pick in the first, and Kiper said some teams liked Mayo better than Rivers FWIW.
  23. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    Re: The Pats did not \"reach\" for Mayo or Wheatley

    So basically you're admitting that you don't like the guy because he wasn't a big name, and you have seen all of his tape so your opinion overrides that of pioli/belichick's.

    Lol. Watch the tapes the FO watches and learn our system then get back to us.
  24. CoachK

    CoachK Rookie

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    "Typical BB wild pick" ?????????????????????

    If only the rest of us had your football skills and knowledge, we would have realized this the moment the choice was made.

    We'll all try harder next year, so that BB can't pull the wool over our eyes!!

    Thankfully, this board has you to set the record staright.
  25. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Willis regained his college eligibility, reentered the draft, and was available at #10.

    The fact is, he was the best player available in the draft at a position of need. Whether he compares favorably or unfavorably to Willis is completely irrelevant. The Pats had no chance to draft Willis last year, and they certainly had no chance to draft him this year.
  26. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    OJ,
    I would really appreciate your scouting report on Mayo. Just a straight up scouting report, as if he had never been drafted by the Pats. Your opinion is highly valued.
  27. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    I don't believe either was really a "reach", and I think they're both good players.

    The thoughts I've had on these two picks:

    Mayo: I never really thought he seemed like a great fit for the Patriots system in particular (most scouting reports and the other SEC guy seemed to agree), but maybe I was thinking about the SILB position a little to much. At WILB I can see how his speed & coverage ability could be huge, and his intelligence in the film room must have really won BB over for him to pull the trigger on a LB that high in the draft. So, he'll likely be able to take over for Bruschi, run the defense (in a few years), bring some much needs speed, athleticism, coverage ability, and pop (he's a hitter too) to the middle of the defense. I kind of worry about the injury history, but guys who were considered very durable in college (IE: Chad Jackson) can suffer a serious injury or two in the pros, and have their career's take a hit.

    Wheatley: Good speed & quickness, intelligent, good ball skills, nice footwork, and was impressive during workouts. I could see this guy developing into a multi-year starter, but his health will be the key. Honestly, I don't like the idea of this kid already having a fused wrist (and other injury problems), but maybe the injuries are behind him? I hope so, as the Patriots could use his skills at CB, and as a KR (I'm not sure about submitting him to the violence that is KR duty in the NFL though).

    Their other picks:
    Crable: I like the pick, and he has obvious pass rushing ability at OLB. The only real concern I've had with Crable is his thin calves, and somewhat small trunk for his size, but I'm sure with some time in the system he'll develop that lower body. I thought Avril had more appeal to the system, but I'm now wondering if he didn't interview well, or had some other issues I wasn't aware of...? In any case, Shawn should be a solid addition, but only time will tell.

    O'Connell: Didn't expect that pick at all, and probably should have paid a little more attention to the QB's in the draft. From what I have seen, he does look like an interesting prospect, and you can always use a strong backup QB. Hopefully the Patriots will not have to use him though.

    Wilhite: I almost put this kid on my list of prospects, but I thought his issues, cone (7.17), shuttle (4.41), and lack of INT's would take him off the Patriots board. The issues I'm talking about: "Poor awareness, Sub par hands and ball skills, Not a great tackler, Work ethic has been questioned, Needs technique work". So, I'm pretty iffy on this kid, but I do like his speed, and some of his problems could be coaches up.

    Slater: Good kick returner, and maybe his addition means they will not have to submit Hobbs or Wheatley to return duty? He's also a good gunner on coverage teams, and could see playing time as a backup DB/WR. NFLDraftScout list his 2007 return average at 30.9 yards per return (30 returns), which is very good.

    Ruud: This is a 6th round pick, you can't really expect much, but I can see some potential here. I'm thinking NE will try him out at ILB, not OLB though. Also, that's a great name for a LB...."BO RUUUUUDD!!":D
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2008
  28. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    xxxxxxxxxxxx
  29. sebman2112

    sebman2112 Rookie

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    Seems about accurate, and we'll have to see how everything works out. Again, I wasn't sure about this guy for NE's system, but I'm also aware of the fact that BB's only taking a very special football player that high in the draft, since the cost associated isn't a drop in the bucket, and he hadn't selected a single LB in the first three rounds going in.

    This is 2112 man, do you honestly think I haven't seen his workouts yet? I've got DVD's of all the Combine footage, lol.

    Well, I agree that Crable could be a good player with some added weight and development, but it seems you're forgetting that he was somewhat inconsistent during his college career, and his motor has actually been questioned. Still think it was a good pick though, and there's a nice amount of upside here. His massive increase in production in 2007 is a good sign that he's likely on the upswing, too.

    Yea, I'm really not sure about this kid, but we'll have to wait and see.

    Seems like a better option than using Wheatley (who does have a significant injury history) at Kick returner. Did you watch him? Scored TD's on kick returns two weeks straight in 2007.

    Hey, at least I'll get to say "BO RUUUUUDD!!" during the preseason...:D
  30. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Personally I find his opinion to be a reach. His opinion isn't very productive and doesn't seem to fit into the board's scheme. He does have a great motor, getting his "I hate Mayo" message in an amazing number of threads. However, lots of better opinions available at this point, so I'll pass.
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