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The Patriots - This year's most overrated team?


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Sounds like a butthurt Steelers fan, they win the championship and no one cares, haha
 
In order for someone to honestly claim that the Patriots are overrated, they must come up with a legitimate argument against the following sentence: The Patriots are the best team in the NFL and they are the favorites to win the Super Bowl.

I guess the argument would be that it is harder for them to achieve that 'rating' than it is for anyone else to achieve their 'rating'.
I know what you are saying and I agree, but overrated is really a matter of expectations exceeding reality so when the expectations are the highest, the likelihood of being overrated is too.
 
I guess the argument would be that it is harder for them to achieve that 'rating' than it is for anyone else to achieve their 'rating'.
I know what you are saying and I agree, but overrated is really a matter of expectations exceeding reality so when the expectations are the highest, the likelihood of being overrated is too.

So where's the overrating? Someone saying that they are going to actually win the Super Bowl isn't overrating them. They are making a prediction.

As far as their 'rating', you can't get higher than "best in the league" or "favorite to win Super Bowl".
 
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It's been a long time since I've heard the Pats were overrated, or not as good as everyone else thinks. I think it bodes well for this season, it's a good omen.
 
So where's the overrating? Someone saying that they are going to actually win the Super Bowl isn't overrating them. They are making a prediction.

As far as their 'rating', you can't get higher than "best in the league" or "favorite to win Super Bowl".

A team that is the consensus pick to win the SB that does not is overrated.
My point was that if you are considered the best there is no room for underrating.
Pehaps the overrating is in underestimating how difficult it is to win it all.
 
I still think the Giants showed the rest of the league the blueprint how to stop Brady and company is overrated itself

It's not exactly revolutionary. The fastest way to stop a Spread Offense like the Pats ran is to pressure the QB. Trying to cover everyone and not bringing heat gets you killed.

That said, Brady made most teams pay for that philosophy but the Giants, Eagles and Ravens had the personnel to implement it. If a team with poor personnel tries voiding zones and bringing heat from all angles, they will get killed.

At any level, if you harrass the QB you will cripple the passing game. Spagnola's game plan was great and I give him credit but I bet he'd be the first to tell you he didn't invent the concept.
 
My letter to the author.

Dear Paul,

Great job bringing the hatchet to the Patriots. Let me ask you a few things which of course you'll ignore.

1) Do you think that NEVER, EVER, EVER,EVER has any team ever notice things like, if that coach rubs his forehead with his left arm it is cover 1 but his right arm is cover 2? (BTW, you want links to "spying" in the past?)

2) Do you seriously think the tape that included the Chargergals was put together in the first half then broken down at half time? Please note we are talking about analog video tape, not digital hard drives that can be erased with a button push.

I can see thinking Brady won't be Tom Brady,and your crystal ball is as good as mine, but your illogical hater is showing if for a second you think the tapes did more than furnish a scouting report on assistant coaches tendencies.

Maybe, just maybe, the reason they lost 5 more games in 2008 than 2007 is having a QB that had not started since high school, not helmet radios.

BTW, I hear tinfoil hats are in vogue for you guys this year.:)
 
In order for someone to honestly claim that the Patriots are overrated, they must come up with a legitimate argument against the following sentence: The Patriots are the best team in the NFL and they are the favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Logic hath no place on an opinion board.

My take: The Squealers won the SB so THEY should be the favs until deposed. Therefore the oft favored Patriots are Over Rated. Q.E.D.

(I'm ignoring the Bradyless 2008 Pats thingy here)
 
It's not exactly revolutionary. The fastest way to stop a Spread Offense like the Pats ran is to pressure the QB. Trying to cover everyone and not bringing heat gets you killed.

That said, Brady made most teams pay for that philosophy but the Giants, Eagles and Ravens had the personnel to implement it. If a team with poor personnel tries voiding zones and bringing heat from all angles, they will get killed.

At any level, if you harrass the QB you will cripple the passing game. Spagnola's game plan was great and I give him credit but I bet he'd be the first to tell you he didn't invent the concept.

I bet he would also be the first to tell you that if there was a rematch a week later he would need a completely different plan, because that one wouldnt have worked twice in a row.
 
Couldn't help myself but to break down this point by point. Once I found that this guy was a Steelers fan, it all made sense. Just another bitter, bitter guy.


The Giants showed how to beat the Patriots in the Super Bowls. By putting constant pressure on Brady, the offense becomes only very good, not incredible as it was for much of the 2007 season. I'm sure every team who was scheduled to play the Patriots last year were going to try to copy the Giants playbook, and apply maximum pressure on Brady.

This is a ridiculous reason for a couple of reasons. First of all its EVERY defense's goal to put the maximum pressure on the opposing QB. This jamoke is trying to tell us he discovered the key to the treasure trove, instead of proving he has a "keen sense of the obvious" :rolleyes:

The other major reason was already pointed out earlier, that the Giants had a special DLine, and not many teams could have pulled off what they did.

FInally, I'm sure he's forgotten all those time those top rated Pittsburgh defenses who led the league in QB pressures where shreaded by the Pats spread offense.

However, the Patriots' offensive line played significantly worse in 2008 compared to 2007. They gave up 48 sacks last year compared to 21 in 2007.

As proof of his disengenuous reporting, he corrrectly gives the right reason for all the sacks and summarily chooses to dismiss his own analysis.

or maybe the fact that defenses for the first time had radios in their helmets so the Patriots could not steal their signals? We may never know,

As proof of his disengenuous reporting he throws in a "spygate" jab. Which would be just like me dismissing ALL of the Steeler Lombardis because most of their team were steroid freaks. Very weak....his black and gold is starting to bleed into his blog.

Whether the line plays like it did in 2007 or 2008 is unclear, but it does return the same 5 starters who have been playing together for 4 years. That in itself is a strength.

As proof of his disengenuous reporting he once again ignores his own analysis. BTW I'm getting very good at typing disengenuous

New England's weakness is its defense. Can we please put to rest the myth that Bill Belichick is a defensive genius. Since becoming the Patriots' head coach in 2000, his defenses have been ranked: 20th, 24th, 23rd, 7th, 9th, 26th, 6th, 4th, and 10th in total yards for an average ranking of 13.3. Consider that is with an offense that not only holds the ball, but also scores in bunches and usually gains the early lead so the defense can concentrate on the pass. Compare that to the Steelers who had an average ranking of 4.4, and the Ravens with an average of 4.9 over that same period. Neither of those teams has an offense which helps the defense like the Patriots.

As proof of his disengenuous reporting he completely ignores the fact that outside the rebuilding year of 2000, the Pats defense has been one of the top ten scoring defense all but one year...including last season (as reported by an earlier poster...much to my surprise)

He is right that the Pats do usually take the lead in game, and it is good coaching to exchange yds for minutes when you have the lead. The only REAL measurement of a good defense is scoring, because thats how you determine the winner, not by who has the most yards (see I too have a "keen sense of the obvious") ;)

They traded away, their best pass rusher, and heart of their defense, Mike Vrabel to Kansas City.

Yeah Bill how are we ever going to replace those FOUR huge sacks we got from Vrabel last season. :rolleyes: Are you in a time warp thinking last season was 2007. You clearly aren't paying attention to reality, hence I get to use the word disengenuous again.

He will be replaced by either Shawn Crable, Tully Banta Cain, or Pierre Woods, none of whom have shown that they can consistently apply pressure on the QB.

TBC had around 8 sacks when he was a situational rusher and injury fill in his last season with the Pats. BTW does that make him TWICE as good as Vrabel. :rolleyes: It was a while ago, but it does show he COULD consistently apply pressure on the QB. Of Course Crabel or Woods has shown they can apply pressure, neither played enough to determine it. Neither had James Harrison before he actually had the chance.

Their other starting OLB, Adalius Thomas is also past his prime. As a middle linebacker, Mayo may be a tackling machine, but he is a liability in coverage, and does not get many opportunities to pressure the QB. Last year, this defense ranked only 14th in sacks with only 31.

Jees, where we as high as 14th. I didn't thing we were that good. I don't think he watch Mayo, but most thought he did pretty well in coverage for a rookie, and his dismissing Thomas as over the hill smacks of a similar lack of any thought. Do I hear a disengenuous coming on.

At safety, Brandon Meriweather has not proven to be the impact player befitting his first round status.

I guess he was watching a different Brandon Merriweather who started to come into his own and was our best DB last season

Rookie Patrick Chung is expected to take his place. While this secondary may be better than last year's, unless the front 7 can find a way to get more pressure on the QB, it will still be exposed.
I guess he doesn't know about James Sanders, and forgot that despite a horrible secondary, injuries galore, and little QB pressure we did win ELEVEN GAMES without Tom Brady. Can I get me a "disengenuous" from the congregation....amen


Lost in the accolades for Matt Cassel last year was the fact that the Patriots played the easiest schedule in recent memory. They played the laughable AFC and NFC west as well as the weaklings in their own division.

I guess he thinks playing in a division with 2 teams that won 19 games and another who managed 7 composes a weak division in his WEAK mind. I guess he doesn't know the meaning of Weak. (though he was right about the AFC and NFC West)

One further point about the NFL's “model franchise”. Belichick and his former sidekick, Scott Pioli, are always mentioned as draft geniuses, but this is not reflected in their starting lineup. Of the 11 projected starters on offense, only 6, the entire offensive line and Brady were originally drafted by the Patriots. Two more may start, Maroney and Watson, but with new acquisitions Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, and Alex Smith, those two will probably be in a rotation. None of their starting receivers were originally drafted or signed by the Patriots.

I can hear the collective "SO WHAT!" come from football fans all over. Was it just an oversight he doesn't mentiont that both Welker and Moss CAME to the Pats as the result of trading draft picks. Its allowed ya know. And I know it might be inconvenient to his arguement but until we see differently both Maroney and Watson ARE starters.I know, even I'm getting tired of calling this dude disengenuous.

On defense, three starters, Adalius Thomas, Leigh Bodden, and Shawn Springs were not drafted by the Patriots. That is 8 of 22 starters who were not originally drafted or signed by the Patriots. Again, compare this to the Steelers where only starters Justin Hartwig, James Farrior, and Ryan Clark were not originally drafted or signed by the Steelers.

Again. so what. If the Steelers don't want to or don't have the skills to us FA as a tool, why should they be lauded. We all have the same cap number. BTW nice of him to play HC and give both Bodden and Springs the starting positions. I think Willhite, Weately and Butler might have a different thought....but then again, admitting that wouldn't make his arguement worth sh!t. Oh oh, Im starting to feel the D word coming....

Even with the improvement of Miami and Buffalo, the AFC East is still a relatively weak division so the Patriots should have no problem making the playoffs, but with their tougher out of division schedule, I doubt that they will be able to gain the top seed in the playoffs. I see a divisional round playoff loss. New England fans will be crying in their chowda come February.

Maybe he should be worrying about his own team who won the superbowl by a last second TD DESPITE the fact they got every bounce, call, and break, over a team that was summarily beaten by the "weak" AFCE...usually by 30 points or so. The Pats might not win the Superbowl, but the fact remains, they are the team his Steelers LEAST want to meet in the Playoffs. When they do meet ITS the STEELERS who will be crying come February. :D
 
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Logic hath no place on an opinion board.

My take: The Squealers won the SB so THEY should be the favs until deposed. Therefore the oft favored Patriots are Over Rated. Q.E.D.

(I'm ignoring the Bradyless 2008 Pats thingy here)

Here's the canyon in that argument:

As a result of this line of thinking, the Cardinals are the best team in the NFC.
 
I'm not familiar with The Football Expert at all but it looks like it is a Bleacher Report-wannabe site. Regardless, the column is an example of what happens when a self-proclaimed expert delves into a topic he knows little about (the Pats) and allows his bias (Steeler fan) to form a judgement prior to looking at any facts. The author throws in a phrase that has been repeated so often it has become cliché (Giants show the rest of the NFL the blueprint), finds a damning statistic (48 sacks) to reach an incorrect conclusion - and getting a sucker punch in (must be because the Pats weren't stealing signals.)

A fan of one team can't be expected to be an expert of another team, but that doesn't stop Chuang. If he didn't have an agenda he could have done some research and found out about the injuries to the offensive line in early 2008 - and mentioned how the sacks dropped once Cassel gained experience and Stephen Neal returned. In fact he could have got the same point across by saying that another similar injury could put the team in jeopardy, and if he had done it in that manner he probably would have been more convincing.

The writer mentions injuries to Maroney and Harrison but not to Adalius Thomas - but comes to the conclusion that Thomas is past his prime; maybe he should have asked Leon Washington and Brett Favre for their opinion. More poor research by the writer; I came away with the impression that he had no idea that Thomas missed time last year, or that Thomas' stats were off because of that.

Next he goes for another cliché, that of the weak division and weak schedule. Let me throw in my own cliché: pot calling the kettle black. If there is any team in the NFL that has benefitted from playing in a weak division this past decade, it is the one that plays the Bengals, Browns and Ravens twice every season. That "weakling" AFC East finished with a 38-26 record in 2008; the AFC North won only 31 games. I can't remember the last season that others didn't try to downplay the success of the Pats with the "easy schedule" card.

To wrap it up he gets off on a tangent about team's draft success - a favorite topic of Steeler fans that like to pat themselves on the back, and offer as "proof" that the Steelers are "better". What this has to do with the topic of the column, I have no idea. I guess it's one of those things that Steeler fans like to bring up when the Pats are being discussed, and he just couldn't resist throwing that out there.

Looking at the profiles of the handful of others who are part of the site, aside from Chuang there is a self-proclaimed Colts and Peyton Manning fan; a Raider fan; and a guy who apparently could care less about football other than to tailgate.

I may have to consider just putting Football Experts on my list of blocked websites because I don't get the feeling I'm going to read anything worthwhile there, though there's a good chance there may be some good old fashioned Pats bashing there.
 
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It's really difficult to read that and make some sort of intelligent comment when he ranks the defense by yards as Deus has pointed out. What a dingbat.
 
Any team rated higher than us is overrated, including last year's champions. Since the 2007 team that was a dropped pick from going undefeated we've lost Asante, Vrabel, and Rodney(who was on the decline that year anyhow). We add Mayo, Sammy Morris(IR that year), Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, and a host of depth at DB/LB/DL with a much improved Brandon Merriweather. If anything this team could be better.

Only the Giants are close IMO. And they've lost Strahan/Plax
 
I don't understand how a team that is 2 years removed from going 18-1 and 11-5 (without Tom Brady) to be overrated? They're not overrated because the Pats were a popular pick to be in the super bowl for the 2008 season. The NFL was so bad last season, the Bucs were 9-3 and collapsed, the Eagles had no business making the playoffs and they ended up in the NFC title game against 9-7 Cardinals team that made it to the super bowl. Had Brady stayed healthy, they would have easily made back to the super bowl. Finally, the Giants were clearly the best team in the NFC until Plaxico Burress f***** up and shot himself in the leg. Had the Giants had Burress for the playoffs, I'm pretty sure it would've been a Pats-Giants rematch.

With Brady back, they're the best team in the NFL by default. Not too many people are taking the Pats additions on defense too seriously. Although I'm not sure about their pass rush, their secondary could catch some teams by surprise. In fact, I love what I'm hearing about Pat Chung and he hasn't even put on the pads yet. This guy reminds me a lot like Brian Dawkins and Bob Sanders because of their high motor and hitting ability.

If you want to know a team that is overrated, its the Steelers. The Pats own the Steelers and had those two teams met in last years playoffs, the Steelers would've layed down as usual.
 
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It's really difficult to read that and make some sort of intelligent comment when he ranks the defense by yards as Deus has pointed out. What a dingbat.

The way you say it, it sounds like sarcasm.

But if I interpret what you're alluding to, you are quite correct. Belichick believes in sound fundamental Defense that makes you hard to work to score. He wants no cheap, one-play TDs. The essence of his preferred style is "Bend don't Break".

With such a Defensive philosophy it is difficult to lead the League in Defense, as he will allow the opposition to move the ball marginally, but expects that a screwup, or a great defensive play or merely a dropped ball will end your drive before you score. But not before the Pats yield some yardage.

For example much was made of the fact that when the opposition managed to penetrate as far as the Pats Red Zone, they more frequently scored TDs rather than Field Goals, compared to the League average. But few recorded the fact that the number of appearances by the opposition in the Pats Red Zone was a League low number of appearances.

In other words, opposition drives petered out BEFORE they got to the Red Zone. Bend don't Break, in action.

Belichick believes the purpose of having a Defense is to prevent the opposition from scoring Points. His defensive squads frequently or rather most of the time are more highly rated when measuring Points Allowed than Yardage Allowed, as another poster here, noted.
 
Any team rated higher than us is overrated, including last year's champions. Since the 2007 team that was a dropped pick from going undefeated we've lost Asante, Vrabel, and Rodney(who was on the decline that year anyhow). We add Mayo, Sammy Morris(IR that year), Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, and a host of depth at DB/LB/DL with a much improved Brandon Merriweather. If anything this team could be better.

Only the Giants are close IMO. And they've lost Strahan/Plax

Actually the Chargers are rated higher than the Pats, and maybe justifiably so. They are loaded in a truly weak division. They will probably clinch the AFCW by Thanksgiving.
 
Any team rated higher than us is overrated, including last year's champions. Since the 2007 team that was a dropped pick from going undefeated we've lost Asante, Vrabel, and Rodney(who was on the decline that year anyhow). We add Mayo, Sammy Morris(IR that year), Fred Taylor, Joey Galloway, and a host of depth at DB/LB/DL with a much improved Brandon Merriweather. If anything this team could be better.

Only the Giants are close IMO. And they've lost Strahan/Plax

Umenyiora is back - That changes that whole defense to a possible top 3 power
 
"New England's weakness is its defense. Can we please put to rest the myth that Bill Belichick is a defensive genius. Since becoming the Patriots' head coach in 2000, his defenses have been ranked: 20th, 24th, 23rd, 7th, 9th, 26th, 6th, 4th, and 10th in total yards for an average ranking of 13.3. Consider that is with an offense that not only holds the ball, but also scores in bunches and usually gains the early lead so the defense can concentrate on the pass. Compare that to the Steelers who had an average ranking of 4.4, and the Ravens with an average of 4.9 over that same period. Neither of those teams has an offense which helps the defense like the Patriots."

This is the part that shot his credibility. What the "football expert" apparently doesn't realize is how defensive philosophy impacts yardage rankings, as does playing with a big lead, going vanilla and then giving up a lot of garbage time yards.

BB's philosophy is geared around limiting points. There have been many games (SB XV against the Bills, SB XXXVI against the Rams, numerous games against the Colts where the team essentially dared the opposing team to run. BB knows which OC's are pass happy and those guys just don't have the mental discipline to stick with the running game. They want to throw. Guys like Mike Martz aren't happy in just beating you, they want to beat you by throwing the ball. BB's Hall of Fame Defensive Game plan against the Bills in the SB included convincing his defensive players that they were going to "allow Thurman Thomas to run all over them" b/c he felt that would keep Kelly out of rhythm and Buffalo was far more dangerous through the air than on the ground.

If you're going to rate defenses, you have to come up with something far more detailed than yards per game. That is the most useless and misleading statistic in football.
 
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