The Patriots' adjusted cap number

[Miguel]

From John Clayton - The Patriots have the 2nd lowest adjusted cap number,
According to Clayton the Patriots had $4.1 million of carry over incentives hitting their cap so the Patriots adjusted cap number is $90.413 million.

WOW, I was way off. I had figured that the adjustment would be $500,000, not to $4.1 million.

 

[Miguel]

Of course, this has a double negative effect for the Pats. Not only is their adjusted cap number the 2nd lowest in the league. It is very likely that several players now have LTBE incentives in their contract that are eating up cap room.

 

[pats1]

Uhh...that's not good.

 

[BelichickFan]

Not good, but look at the Dolphins :

The Dolphins are only working with $84.9 million of cap room from the $94.5 million cap because they have close to $10 million of incentives carried over from 2005.

 

[patsfan55]

i dont quite get this

how are we second lowest?

and why is this bad

 

[Miguel]

i dont quite get this

how are we second lowest?

NTLBE/LTBE Credit/Debit System Explained
On DenverBroncos.Com there was an interview with Coordinator of Football Administration Mike Bluem. Here's part of the interview
What is the cap for 2002?

The cap for 2002 is $71,101,000. But for us, it's actually a little bit
more. We got a credit because we were charged more for incentives than were actually earned. When that happens, the league will net out the difference and credit the amount to the team for the next season. If a team spends more than it was charged then the league deducts that amount from the cap the next year. In our case, the Broncos were charged more in incentives than the players earned, so we got about a $3.3 million adjustment on our cap this year. Thus, our salary cap figure for this year is $74,466,876, which is the second highest in the league only to Indianapolis.

Explain the credit and debit system against the cap?
Basically there are two types of incentives built into player contracts -
likely to be earned and non-likely to be earned. Likely incentives are based
upon whether or not a player accomplished a feat the previous year. If a
player makes 50 catches one season and he has an incentive that requires him to make 49 receptions the next season, it is a likely incentive because he
accomplished that the previous season. Likely incentives are charged against
the cap immediately. Non-likely incentives are charged against the cap only
if the player achieves them. If a guy had 50 catches last year and in his
contract this year he has an incentive clause that kicks in if he makes 51
catches, it's a non-likely incentive because he didn't do it the previous
year. At the end of the season you take the likelys that were actually
earned and add to it the non-likelys that were earned. That figure is
subtracted from what you were charged on the cap for the likely incentives.
In our case, we were charged about $3.3 million more than what we actually
had to pay the players and that's why we get a credit on the cap this year."
[/quote]

and why is this bad

In the Patriots' case they can only commit $90.4 million to the cap, not the announced cap limit of $94.513 million.

 

[ilduce06410]

who's john clayton?

From John Clayton - The Patriots have the 2nd lowest adjusted cap number,
According to Clayton the Patriots had $4.1 million of carry over incentives hitting their cap so the Patriots adjusted cap number is $90.413 million.

WOW, I was way off. I had figured that the adjustment would be $500,000, not to $4.1 million.

you know what i'm gonna ask next.
is he the man?
why would the league, or the nflpa, release these figures?
seems to give kraft and the dolphins owner (and seeveral others) an incentive to move the other way. i don't know if they're that transparent in nyc.
IMO kraft will look to change that cap figure, whatever scenario develops..

 

[PATSNUTme]

Of course, this has a double negative effect for the Pats. Not only is their adjusted cap number the 2nd lowest in the league. It is very likely that several players now have LTBE incentives in their contract that are eating up cap room.

Is it right to say that with the cap being at $95mil that the Patriots are now $5 mil under the cap?

That is the number most of us are concerned with right now. And that does not include any cuts or re-done contracts that will be announce today.

 

[PYPER]

Is it right to say that with the cap being at $95mil that the Patriots are now $5 mil under the cap?

That is the number most of us are concerned with right now. And that does not include any cuts or re-done contracts that will be announce today.

No....I think what he's saying is that while most teams will have a salary cap around $95M the Patriots cap will actually be closer to $90.

It's all b/c of the likely/unlikely to be earned incentives which Miguel has already explained.

 

[BelichickFan]

No....I think what he's saying is that while most teams will have a salary cap around $95M the Patriots cap will actually be closer to $90.

Yeah, the $3.5M we saved by cutting Starks goes to this It's like getting a paycheck and all of it going to taxes :bricks:

 

[PATSNUTme]

Yeah, the $3.5M we saved by cutting Starks goes to this It's like getting a paycheck and all of it going to taxes :bricks:

Ok, now that you put it that way I understand, it's happened to me. So we need to cut some guys today and redo-Willie and maybe another. We can still get to 10mil below.

 

[Miguel]

No....I think what he's saying is that while most teams will have a salary cap around $95M the Patriots cap will actually be closer to $90.

It's all b/c of the likely/unlikely to be earned incentives which Miguel has already explained.

We have BINGO!

 

[mgteich]

Miguel,

This accounts for a $3.6M reduction in the monies available for free agenct. However, I think your analysis was over $8M last year, and $2M now. Is the addition $2.4M just the normal discrepancy between various numbers, or did another factor kick in.

It seems that only $2M will force tough decisions. We need a kicker and a wide receiver. I guess the help will be jags.

BTW, I'm much more concerned about the $6M loss of free agent monies that about the lack of a new CBA, which would have simply given everyone more and inflate the free agent market.

From John Clayton - The Patriots have the 2nd lowest adjusted cap number,
According to Clayton the Patriots had $4.1 million of carry over incentives hitting their cap so the Patriots adjusted cap number is $90.413 million.

WOW, I was way off. I had figured that the adjustment would be $500,000, not to $4.1 million.

 

[fgssand]

Ok, now that you put it that way I understand, it's happened to me. So we need to cut some guys today and redo-Willie and maybe another. We can still get to 10mil below.

Yet, everybody trashes me whan I post a list of possible cuts. I was told the math was done for me and nobody needed to be cut. I agree, nobody needs to be cut, unless we are not comfortable with our current situation of no kicker, 1 legitimate wide receiver and other areas of concerns.
If we want to sign some of our own or others free agents, then we need to cut people today, or wait and watch these players go elsewhere. We need to cut Ty Poole and Chad Brown - that frees up about 3MM - enough to sign AV. We need to cut willie and then immediatley redo his deal. That will free up some more to sign a WR and maybe some others.

I am vindicated.

 

[shirtsleeve]

This stuff is way too Enron like in its accounting principals. We are being penalized for being careful with our incentives. That is BS!

Regardless, we could see a bunch of shocking cuts today. We're already seeing them from other teams. If the Pats stay true to form, you will see them late, probably last to announce.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yet, everybody trashes me whan I post a list of possible cuts. I was told the math was done for me and nobody needed to be cut. I agree, nobody needs to be cut, unless we are not comfortable with our current situation of no kicker, 1 legitimate wide receiver and other areas of concerns.
If we want to sign some of our own or others free agents, then we need to cut people today, or wait and watch these players go elsewhere. We need to cut Ty Poole and Chad Brown - that frees up about 3MM - enough to sign AV. We need to cut willie and then immediatley redo his deal. That will free up some more to sign a WR and maybe some others.

I am vindicated.

You aren't vindicated. No one trashed you for talking about Ty Poole and Chad Brown. But, hey, why deal with facts, FGSSAND when you can play the victim, right?

 

[fgssand]

You aren't vindicated. No one trashed you for talking about Ty Poole and Chad Brown. But, hey, why deal with facts, FGSSAND when you can play the victim, right?

You keep saying we need not do anything with Willie until 3/15. While true, unless we redo the deal long before then, there wont be any money to sign our own free agents.
Where did I go wrong?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You keep saying we need not do anything with Willie until 3/15. While true, unless we redo the deal long before then, there wont be any money to sign our own free agents.
Where did I go wrong?

You touched the Social Security rail of Patriot fandom with purpose, naughty, naughty! :nono:

 

[DaBruinz]

You keep saying we need not do anything with Willie until 3/15. While true, unless we redo the deal long before then, there wont be any money to sign our own free agents.
Where did I go wrong?

Where you went wrong is in the thought that the Patriots are going to try and re-sign any of the big 4 (Neal, Givens, Vinatieri, Ashworth). I honestly think that they are letting them go and focusing on replacements.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you would stop misquoting me. I said that the Patriots have until 3/15 to get a deal worked out with Willie.

Also, if you honestly think that all 4 of them will be signed in the next 2 weeks, wow. More power to you. I don't see it happening because of the upheaval of the CBA.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel,

This accounts for a $3.6M reduction in the monies available for free agenct. However, I think your analysis was over $8M last year, and $2M now. Is the addition $2.4M just the normal discrepancy between various numbers, or did another factor kick in.

The last time I did my overview I thought that the cap would be $96 million, not $94.5 million. That is a $1.5 million difference. I thought the Patriots' cap adjustment would be -500,000. It turned out to be -4,100,000.