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The "pass-rushing OLB" myth

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patspsycho, Apr 30, 2011.

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  1. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You seem very reasonable, but can you elaborate?
  2. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    With all due respect, Brady was "totally immobile" because none of his receivers were open. That was the game plan Ryan came up with.

    The game was lost before it was ever played. Ryan showed his cards by stocking the active roster with all the DB's he had. That should have been a tip off that he was going to elect to flood the backfield.
  3. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    No. You know what, looking back, I was comparing McCourty's year to Revis 2008, not 2007. McCourty did have a better rookie year than Revis.
  4. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    I know what you're saying psycho,but this wasn't the "Battle of Kursk".....you're theory of flooding the roster with db's is knee-jerk and simplistic.
    The reality is that TFB could not or would not run,threw the ball,too soon and inaccurately and was all around totally flustered.Sometimes,Brady and the pats' problem is that they because so regimented that they won't risk anything.No long attempts to get the Jets out of their center zone...No swing passes or scrambles to force them to bring their "small ball" defense to come up....and most importantly.....patience,patience and more patience.

    The dropped balls by Crumpler and Chung,the fumble by Woodhead,seemed to take the air out of the patriots.......it wasn't the jets db's,it was Brady's injury and intransgience to adjust,that spelled doom for a team that was rolling early in the game.

    The patriots were not outcoached or outschemed.
    They were outplayed by an inferior team...."mores the pity"....as the poet said.
  5. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Theory? Everyone knew as soon as they saw the inactives for the game. There was not one single DB on the Jets inactive list.

    And yes the Patriots were outcoached and outschemed, pure, plain, and simple. I have the game on my laptop, and I've watched it from time to time.

    Their problem was most definitely not because of being "regimented." You don't get to be the league-leading offense by being "regimented." Unfortunately, the game-calling was one-dimensional for the most part, and only went back to mixing it up (which brings out the best in the offense) when it was too late.
  6. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    "Regimented" does not mean you're unsuccessful,it means that you are likely to be thrown off by "adversity".
  7. Timbo717

    Timbo717 Rookie

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    Well I'm not a Chickian or whatever...But I thought the general consensus was that they deferred from taking the Raiders 1st from last year because they were betting that a rookie wage scale would be in place this year where it obviously wasn't going to be at the time of the trade. Obviously that bet hasn't paid off, but it was a decent gamble.

    I'm not sure why you write off Solder so easily though when he hasn't even played a snap. By that logic anyone they would've drafted would've looked bad at this point for what Seymour gave them in his career. I'm not one to defend every move Belichick makes but it's kind of silly to write off any draft pick two days after the draft, isn't it?
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  8. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    I understand what you mean by regimented- e.g., being so systematized or regulated that you cannot adapt to adversity, and in the case of BOB, that probably was true, because his playcalling regressed atrociously. But in the context you are talking about it, e.g., Brady, it simply is not true.
  9. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Rookie

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    Sign Tamba Hali, and I'll be happy.
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Hali was franchised by the Chiefs.
  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    Although I don't disagree with the premise here, it's too simplistic. Will Smith is not an elite pass rusher. In addition to that, the Packers, Saints, Steelers, and Colts all had very strong, playmaking secondaries. I could just as easily make a list with guys like Sharper, Polamalu, and Sanders. In fact, a healthy Bob Sanders was the difference maker for the Colts in the postseason, not Freeney and Mathis.

    The more strong players on defense, the harder for a QB to gameplan them. Brady completely shredded the Dolphins and Steelers last season, even though Harrison and Wake are studs. I think any time you can upgrade the defense at any position, it's a plus.
  12. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Rookie

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    Ah crap...
  13. skinnydog

    skinnydog Rookie

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    Think of Texas hold em. Jets went all in from the opening snap with pass defense. Pats did not recognize it soon enough.
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree with that. Ultimately we threw for 300 yards against that defense.
    Mistakes killed us. The game couldn''t be over before it was won, if the outcome may have changed on 2 plays...the Int on a freaking screen and the dropped TD pass.
  15. skinnydog

    skinnydog Rookie

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    What's the point of this thread?? A single outside linebacker good at rushing the passer is overated or that a great overall pass rush is overrated??
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  16. skinnydog

    skinnydog Rookie

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    Did you happen to notice the Pats got no pressure on Sanchez during the game?
  17. eom

    eom Rookie

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    those examples are absolutely ridiculous --- every one is attributable to scheme and coaching.
    packers d didn't get good 'til capers went over there and installed his flavor of 3-4, smith is just a 4-3 end who might look better since greg williams got hired, pittsburgh is obvious, you'll probably see sack numbers rise in st louis since spags went over there, and the type of 4-3 the colts run absolutely counts on pressure from the ends --- that's why freeney gets paid huge money to be the cornerstone.
    that's all he does.
    and fyi -- indy is not known for it's defense.

    that's not to say any of these defenses aren't better than the pats scheme, but to attribute anything in those cities to just one specific guy and imply we should get him to turn our defense around is ridiculous.
  18. eom

    eom Rookie

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    I won't whitewash that playoff loss --- that was just depressing, but in the previous game against the jets sanchez threw for 164 yds at about 50% comp with a 4.9 ypa --- 0 td and 3 picks.
    that's not horrible.

    I mean for our defense.
  19. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    He's probably one of the same guys who screamed Bloody Murder after the McCourty pick. :)
    Let's relax people and let Dante work his magic with the OL.
    Dante turned Vollmer, a late 2nd rounder with very similar physical tools into a pro-bowler.
    Now just imagine what he could do with Solder.
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  20. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    The responsibilities of an OLB in the base 3-4 is different than in sub packages. In the base, an OLB has 3 responsibilities:
    1) Seal the edge on running plays coming his way
    2) Pursue down the line but maintain containment on runs away from him
    3) Drop into shallow zones or rush on passing plays, deciding which to do based on play call or by keys

    That is a pretty tough and heady guy. If they do the right things at the right time, they don't need to be elite athletes. If they make a mistake, they expose an entire side of the field for a big gain.

    In sub packages, the OLB drops down into a traditional 4-3 end position and rushes the passer. Besides keeping pocket containment and protecting against draw plays, there aren't too many brain cells involved.

    In an ideal world, you can get a Vrabel-type that can serve both roles. Even Vrabel eventually couldn't manage the sub role and was moved out (even though his play in the base was still above average). It would take an extraordinary player (not just an athlete) to be able to come in out of college and contribute as a base 3-4 OLB for the Pats. To his credit, Cunningham did a fine job last year.

    Considering how often the Pats are in sub packages, wouldn't it make sense to draft someone into that sub OLB role? You would think so given that only a declining TBC and Eric Moore are on the roster now. There were almost 20 of those types taken in the draft and Belichick passed on all of them except Von Miller and Aldon Smith (Quinn and Kerrigan were easily gettable).

    There are several choices for reasons:
    A) Belichick is a moron and doesn't recognize rush end as a need
    B) He thinks those 20 guys he passed on either suck or were terrible values (or both)
    C) He believes TBC and Moore are the guys he wants
    D) Belichick has a plan for player acquisition when FA starts

    In order to have a reasonable conversation, we really need to dismiss both A) and B). They don't make sense and just leads to silliness.

    I have no idea if C) or D) is reality. TBC had a down year but may be able to bounce back (he is pricey though). Moore showed some promise and is dirt cheap. I'm inclined to think that Belichick has some guys he is targeting as FAs. Mark Anderson (Brooks Reed replacing him) is 27 and had some success early with the Bears. Charles Johnson (Panthers) is a UFA at only 24 and coming off an 11 sack season. Manny Lawson is only 26. With the influx of rush ends in this draft, the destinations for these guys is somewhat limited. If Belichick brings in one or two of these guys and they just stick to sub packages, the Pats 2011 draft class will be seen in a much different light.
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