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The "pass-rushing OLB" myth

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patspsycho, Apr 30, 2011.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't really isolate the reasons games were lost without recognizing they were also reasons games were won.
    When you are 14-3 its kind of hard to say scrap what caused the losses, because what you put in its place or what you subtract next to it, may create losses out of some of those wins.
    This mad scientist approach of trying to find a single reason that would win a SB is nuts. We need to build the best team we can, and they need to play a good game when its on the line.
    Since winning the SB the last time, we have had a team fully capable of winning another in 2006, 2007, 2008(if Brady wasnt injured) 2010.
    We didn't not win because of some inherent flaw in the team, we didn't win because we did not play well and the opponent did in 3 critical games (and Bradys injury was the 4th case).
    That is why teams win SBs, not talent collections.
    Are we really going to say the team that beat the Jets 45-3 a few weeks earlier, was unequiped to beat them in the playoffs? If they played well, they win. You can't rip up the blueprint because you lost when you didn't execute and the other team did.
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thats not what you are saying though. You are saying its easy to scheme a pass rush, because the QB won't ever look there. (1 game doesnt make your point)
    By the way, the Jets pass rush was poor last year.
  3. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I was just referring to his tenure as a Head Coach in New England. The intimation given his résumé was ridiculous.
  4. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    It wasn't just 1 game...how many passes were thrown at Revis 2010?

    In 09 as you said that he was tested but he also had like 8 interceptions and rarely anything good comes when you throw his way. You might get a short completion.

    It's bull**** to argue the impact Revis has on the entire Jets D. Revis is the most complete defensive player in the NFL and the best defensive player in the NFL in my opinion.

    Last i checked we don't have Revis at cornerback and our pass rush ain't any better than the Jets have.
  5. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Umm, yeah, the thing is that we already have a franchise LT, who has shown he can do it, in Vollmer, unlike Solder, who hasnt.
  6. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Rookie

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    Do you know what a "strawman argument" is? It's what you're doing by attacking the argument that "the pass rush will solve everything" which is NOT the argument ANYONE on this board is making, everyone here believes in the importance of the secondary, there is no reason why we can't upgrade the secondary AND also improve the pass rush.

    Here's a simple question that just might be simple enough for you: would having DeMarcus Ware instead of TBC improve our defense?
  7. zoostation

    zoostation Rookie

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    Exactly. The Patriots D will gel as a unit. Look for some of the younger D-linemen and LB's develop. And don't rule out a strong return from Ty Warren
  8. patsoxfan

    patsoxfan Rookie

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    2003 OLBs 19.5 sacks 41 total
    2004 OLBs 21.5 sacks 45 total
    2010 OLBs 15.5 sacks 36 total :eek:
  9. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer Rookie

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    Again, see the post on the first page of this thread. We were one of the top sacking units in the latter half of the season last year. Sacks weren't the issue. (post #9)
  10. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Will Smith isn't even close to an elite edge rusher, and Justin Tuck is another beast entirely (an interior rusher, which I think we all agree the Pats need more of, and might have on their roster already).

    It's pretty clear that you're writing revisionist history here. I would certainly like for the Pats to have another edge rusher (who wouldn't?), but even if you look back at the Super Bowl defenses, we didn't get many more sacks from the OLBs than we do now (At least until last year). If anything, we're missing the Seymour and Bruschi production. The hole that was created at DE when we traded Seymour, IMO, continues to be by far the largest roadblock to the D returning to excellence. Unfortunately, there's maybe 1 guy per year in the draft who could come close to filling that hole with the desired level of play, and he's always gone in the top 5. FWIW I'm also a little pessimistic about Ty Warren coming back strong, so that doesn't help either.
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  11. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    No, we have a good scheme and great CBs (including the best in the game today - McCourty is damn good but you can't man him up on the opponent's best receiver and play 10 on 10 against the rest, the way the Jets like to do with Revis), but decent safeties at best, and the lack of pressure at times last year let teams eat us alive in the passing game by targeting our safeties, lbs, and third and 4th corners (who played ok, but couldn't cover for the 4-5 seconds QBs were routinely getting against us)
  12. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    I'm a Jets fan . . . and we were not very good at generating pressure last year. Scheme can only do so much, at some point, your guys need to win one on one battles. Teams either max-protected against us or checked down to intermediate routes, and the result was that our overload blitzes had less and less impact as the season wore on. That's way the game plan in the playoffs changed as much as it did - we backed off, rushed 3 or 4 except in some situations, and neither the colts nor the pats adjusted quickly enough (max protecting against a 4 man rush means 3 in a pattern against 7 . . . that won't work, especially when Revis makes it 2 on 6). By the team they adjusted, we were mixing the blitzes back in, and they were finally getting home (because instead of being called against max protect and short routes, they were being called against plays designed to take advantage of fewer rushers). I'm hoping Rex internalized the lesson about picking his spots with the blitz; if you know it's coming every down, it can be beaten and beaten badly. If you don't know when it'll happen but know it'll get home when it does . . . it's terrifying.

    That's one of the reasons the Wilkerson pick makes so much sense for us - by all accounts, he can push the pocket from the DL, meaning fewer blockers will be available to pick up blitzers.
  13. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    In a 3-4 defense, 2 of the 9 positions are OLB. In the Patriots system you need an OLB to set the edge first, so you can't have a one dimensional "pass rushing" OLB.

    To say that the Patriots can't draft a complete OLB is something I don't believe. You just have to keep trying with mid round DE conversion project. Or take a chance on a Clay Matthews type, who I was screaming for 2 drafts ago.

    Tedy said today that he was disappointed that the Patriots did not draft an OLB higher. However, he said that BB prefers veterans at that position. If that is the case then we should expect a major move once Free Agency starts.
  14. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan On the Roster

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    Randomk,

    We went 14-2.

    What did the Jets endup with 10-6, or 9-7, with the same or slightly easier schedule as a second place team. We were undone by having only two healthy Defensive linemen and our best run ILB on suspension in the Playoff game.

    Time for the proverbial, "Wait 'til next year".
  15. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    Welcome doggin94it......you are spot on.The jets "scheme",plays off of Revis.....and to a lesser degree Cromartie,not the other way around.The "weakness" of this defense is TIME.Let me explain.

    As the game goes on and the jets strategy of "chaos" pressure isn't working,teams start to attack the interior of the jets secondary..FS,NB's and Cro with "drag" routes and slants(quick screens are very dangerous against this defense...not recommended).Revis is just too good,however,he can be worked on with simple 5 or 6 yd hitches,making him unable to freelance toward the center of the defense.

    The deal with Cromartie is to make him play safety.He's too fast to attempt those 10-15 "outs" against.....the trick is to make him play outside coverage and beat him on a shallow "cross"...not a slant,but a cross.This makes him think about whether to try to "undercut" or to tackle.His ego-button will usually say undercut,which puts him too much into the center of the defense....essentially at safety.Revis,on the other hand.will "undercut",and make you pay dearly.

    The problem Brady and the pats had in the playoff game was that Ryan recognized,pretty quickly,that TFB was totally immobile and was getting "tunnel vision".Brady had "time".....he just didn't "see".Under imagined pressure,he never looked at what Tate was doing or swing passes or short scrambles...nothing,but Welker and checkdowns after checkdowns......Bizarre,but only an aberration,trust me.(don't get too ****y,jets fans).

    What mystifies me about your jets,is their first half performances in big games.This,I blame on Ryan for his "Admiral Stockdale" moments....."who am I?"....where am I"?.
    I don't blame Sanchez,who I believe is an average QB,at best...but Rex,who is a great situational coach,but most times seems like the Ringmaster of the "Insane Clown Posse".

    In the 4th quarter,it seems poor Sanchize is like the teenager who realizes his parents are dysfuntional,so it's up to me to motivate my siblings.These types of bipolar performances is reflected by the head coach and it doesn't portend well for the future.:cool:
  16. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Ahhh like watch the game.......

    The Patriots scored to go up 14-10. Then Tyree.

    Absent the miracle nobody remembers.

    It's amazing how dense some can be on an obvious point. Pressure is important and required but an elite secondary is the prime condition required for a defense.

    "You can never have too many good CB's" is more vital than the "pass rusher".
  17. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    This is a great example of stupidity thrust in the debate.

    Ahhh ever watch football in 2007? Did it ever like dawn in your world that revis was actually drafted as a rookie.

    McCourty 2010 was better than Revis 2007. That's kinda why you draft these guys because like rookies get better.

    That projection thing can really be useful sometimes.
  18. Observer

    Observer Rookie

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    The Tyree catch would never had happened if we had been able to bring down manning who made a mockery of our pass rush.
  19. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    That's homertastic
  20. Doggin94it

    Doggin94it Rookie

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    And it wouldn't have mattered if the Giants D (and passrush) hadn't held your previously unstoppable O to a mere 14 points
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