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The Oslo Terrorist..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anders Behring Breivik, apparently driven by some right wing ideology.. have to wonder what would motivate someone to open fire on a chidlren's camp, what could he have hoped to achieve???..

    Is this a Charles Manson moment?? Or perhaps what the Hutaree Movement Intended? an effort to start some type of "cultural/race war".... have to wonder if this is part a larger group of people, or just an individual act..

    Without regard it is senseless to use any living human being for this type of political statement, RIP innocents. More collateral damage in whatever this is..

    BBC News - Profile: Norway attacks suspect Anders Behring Breivik

    Norwegian massacre gunman Anders Behring Breivik was a right-wing extremist who hated Muslims | Mail Online

    Unfortunately, World Net Daily has already investigated this travesty and is blaming the MOOOZLIMS... with a highly scientific poll...

    WND Forums

    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  2. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    my vote is that he's just bat**** crazy......

    crazy happens
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    This is the type of terrorist most feared by our government and with good reason. If he truly did act alone it is near impossible to keep an eye on these people unless they are actively communicating their plans with others via electronic media.

    RIP to those who perished yesterday.
  4. PatsFanInVa

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    Yeah I love the rightie fallback position - "Oh yeah that right-wing, anti-muslim, anti-leftist hatemonger? He's just bat**** crazy."

    Looks like another rightist terrorist to me. You can't just say your guys are crazy, and the other guys aren't. Any terrorist is bat**** crazy from the point of view of those of us who don't think it's okay to kill scads of people for our political reasons.

    Oh by the way, no, this is not the same thing as throwing glitter on a governor or something.

    PFnV
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I surrender, pound away.

    Do they have "gun control" overe there?
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What comes to mind are the so called frindge groups that homeland security and Southern Poverty Leadership Center warn us about, but are often minimized as some type of myth...

    This guy is a regular poster on Jihad Watch...
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    FYI PFiVA....JC Davey is a leftie, not a rightie.

    Given the choice of home-grown terrorists or jihadist Islamic groups...I'll take a home grown one everytime. Is there a difference? Not in the results...they are equal. But nothing gets me riled up more than some foreign group bombing/killing OUR citizens. Whent that happens, like most Americans, I want revenge. But when a terrorist is domestic (or just a nutjob), revenge doesn't come into play to nearly the same degree.

    The revenge factor is a huge issue regarding the topic of terrorism.

    anyone have a link to the "jihad watch" site? I might want to join. :D
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So you DO understand the concept of "hate crime" and why it may seem worse to someone of the "hated" group?

    Weren't you the one arguing that very issue with me not too long ago? You called me all sorts of names for saying that the family members of a hate crime victim would feel worse and require more "pay back" about the murder of their child than the family members of a victim of a random murder might feel or require.

    Jihad Watch

    Knock yourself out.
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Anyone but me find it really funny how when public figures get assaulted with glitter or pie or something, the Missus tells us all that it isn't really assault and we need to lighten up, but then she does nothing but whine and cry incessantly about all the mean, nasty names she gets called in this forum? :rofl: :rofl:
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    :rofl: :rofl: PWNED! :rofl: :rofl:
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, a leftie said something that serves to exculpate a rightie agena. My GOD I am humiliated. :cool:

    To the actual point, something that seems sadly beyond the grasp of our local denizens, terrorism doesn't have a home church/mosque/synagog, or home country. It's a method, not an ethnic group. It's a deplorable method - and it is far from the only deplorable method, but it's one of the worse ones I can think of at large at the moment: the purposeful targeting of the non-combatant, together with the willful erosion of the difference between combatant and non-combatant.

    PR, your assertion that it's "worse" for someone from another culture to kill you than for your neighbor to kill you because he has an axe to grind, is an honest if not an intellectually very rigorous point of view. We do fear the "other," and that is programmed in.

    However, the Mrs. points out that she has in the past made a similar point as regards hate crime legislation; it seems that your honest, "in-touch-with-your-gut" response is selective.

    But I can actually make your argument for you, on that count - and this is pretty much just what the Mrs. was saying: You want to get a pass for nationalist/ethnic/racial reaction to the "out-group" attacking your nation. You want that to be worse than your local blue-eyed blond attacking your nation from within. But you don't accord that right to anybody else. If someone attacks you because of your identity as a Jew for example, it is not supposed to be any worse based on precisely the same gut reaction. So the gut reaction is based on what one dictates ex cathedra is the basis of identity. Ho hum, a Jewish or gay or Black American is just being murdered by another American, or his/her property is being destroyed, or he/she is being threatened, or whatever. It is no worse, because they are not foreigners -- and I declare ex cathedra that other levels of identity don't matter. Even this double-standard falls apart, however, the moment the attacker is born to immigrant parents from the middle east -- aha! An American of Pakistani descent!!! That's the worst thing I can imagine!!!!!

    Here's another way to think about it, which is more satisfying if you feel that internal inconsistency points to a bad argument:

    Terrorism shares with hate crime other more important factors than our gut desire for greater vengeance.

    Both carry with them the intent, and the attendant future likelihood, that another member of the targeted (hated) group will be attacked. Because of this factor, each hate crime or act of terrorism serves to terrorize, intentionally, the remainder of the group targeted. This crime is absent in the case of, for example, a husband killed by a wife for the insurance money. Although knowledge of such things might make me careful in choosing a wife, there are no websites in which wives deride all husbands and swear to continue killing them for the insurance money unless their demands are met, or declaring all husbands to be worthy of death, according to the grand scriptures of the ya ya sisterhood or somesuch.

    The intentional crime against the remainder of the community, in the case of a hate crime, is a rational justification for its separate treatment.

    In the case of terrorism, it is the intentional crime against the remainder of a nation, a people, a religion, etc. The shooter in Norway brings further terror to the nation, just as much as the doctor-killers embraced by the right wing here. He appears to be after those he believes are too friendly with people he doesn't like, based on their politics.

    It would be no more or less threatening were he a Muslim or a Pakistani, in terms of the reality of the threat presented -- just as American medical practitioners or civilian government workers are not afraid that some wild-eyed Yemeni is about to bomb the clinics or local IRS offices.

    Your personal viewpoint is infused with your own personal fears, and you discount the parallel fears that others among your countrymen and women must live with.

    Theirs are real. So are yours. I don't think any of us should tickle one another's amygdalas using bombs and guns. I trust that you, too, oppose this tactic. That effect exists in any murder, in a grand-lottery sort of fashion. In the case of hate crime or terrorist act, that effect is purposely focused on a specific group, to tell other members of that group that they, too, are marked for death by some stranger. The tactic is as comfortable for the "turner diaries" crowd as for seasoned jihadis; it is not entirely coincidental that there have, in fact, been contacts between the jihadis and the American militia groups.

    So as ee cummings asked,

    How do you like your blue-eyed boy now, Mr. Death?

    PFnV
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    If you had any sense of shame (or self respect) then yes you would be, considering the arrogance and condescension you displayed for all to see, only to be completely rejected. :rofl: :rofl:

    As for the rest of your post: TLDR.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  13. PatsFanInVa

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    Oddly, I feel much less ashamed that I responded to a stock rightie excuse that happened to be offered by (according to you) a leftie, than I would feel if I refused to read anything posted of substance.

    Oh wait, this will make it more true...


    :singing::bricks::rocker::eek::(:eek:
  14. patsfan13

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  15. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What's really troubling, and certainly telling, is how some posters in here are almost fifty (should say 'gitty', not fifty, damn smartphone), if not hoping that this loon was driven by christianity. Kinda sad considering 90+ people died.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    right, RW... some folks here were quick to assume it was Muslims, but you opt to seize on supposed anti-christian sentiments?

    Given your last point, which is spot on, your finger-pointing is pretty hypocritical.
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    What's also telling is that I do not recall Major Malik Nadal Hasan ever being called "this loon driven by Islam," by any rightie on this board.

    He was never referred to as "batsh#t crazy," or a lunatic or anything else. He was, first and foremost, a Muslim - and therefore, a terrorist.

    I'm not even saying that Anders Behring Breivik is not a raving lunatic, or that he isn't batsh#t crazy, he probably is. But then again, anyone who does what he did, what Hasan did, what Jared Lee Loughner did or what Timothy McVeigh did is, most likely, certifiably crazy.

    My point is, you can't use religion when it's convenient to your personal beliefs and then discard it when it's inconvenient because that particular finger is pointing too close to home.

    If we accept that Breivik is insane because of what he did then we must also at least entertain the idea that what Hasan did was also caused by insanity.

    After all, Breivik is an individual who has defined himself as a Christian, and as such, is not representative of the entirety of Christianity or the embodiment of Christian belief - and Hasan has also defined himself as a Muslim individual and, also as such, is not representative of the entirety of Islam or the embodiment of Islamic belief.

    If there is anything to be learned from this tragedy in Norway it is that profiling not only doesn't prevent squat, it is, in fact, counterproductive and that there will always be individuals of all colors and races and religions who can be genuinely regarded as batsh#t crazy.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  19. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Some insight into this nut:

    Norway Massacre: 'Fundamentalist Christian' Killer Reveals Hatred of Modern Church, Christian News

    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    One more thing ... this is messed up:
    50 minutes before they send a terror unit?
    LIKE NO HELICOPTER TO SEND A COP OR WHATEVER???

    ■3.26 pm (11.26pm Melbourne time) Centre of Oslo is rocked by at least one huge explosion close to the government's headquarters and the offices of VG, the country's biggest newspaper. Reports that more blasts are imminent cause panic.


    ■5.20pm Reports emerge that a man dressed as a police officer has opened fire at a youth camp organised by the ruling Norwegian Labour Party on the island of Utoeya. Soon after, supporters of the Global Jihad terror group claim responsibility for the attack because of Norway's ''occupation of Afghanistan and the abuse of our Prophet Muhammad''.


    ■6.10pm Police send anti-terror unit to Utoeya. The man arrested after the shooting, later identified as 32-year-old Norwegian national Anders Behring Breivik, is also linked to the bombing in Oslo.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011

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