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The Oregon vote

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Just one week after the media chattering classes announced that Republican Scott Brown's upset win in Massachusetts represented a political sea change, voters in Oregon sent an unmistakable message of their own. And to be sure, they signaled an important win for Democrats and their progressive allies.

    Rather than gut school funding and other essential government services during a recession like most states, Oregonians voted to raise taxes on the wealthiest residents and boost the minimum corporate tax from its shocking level of $10 a year.

    http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/oregon-sends--progressive-message-on-taxes

    In an election with 59% turnout statewide, voters approved both Measure 66 (which raises taxes on households with taxable income above $250,000) and Measure 67 (which sets sets higher minimum taxes on corporations and increases the tax rate on upper-level profits) by a comfortable 6 point, 90,000 vote margin. With a 70% "yes" vote, Portland's Multnomah County alone provided most of the difference.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  2. Gunnails

    Gunnails Rookie

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    Portland politics is wac, bunch of loons.
  3. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    I'm sure it was easy too. The "raise taxes on the rich" and "have to cut funding for schools" because we need more money. Same tricks they've played in California for the past 30 years.

    Good job, Oregon. Say bye bye to job creators who live in your state. Let us all know what your unemployment numbers are next year.
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    wow....

    talk about knowing NOTHING.

    California just balanced its budget by cutting education, healthcare, parks, and retirement for state workers. We also approved offshore drilling.

    MIght wanna understand why Disnyland pays less in property tax in cali than most private landowners.

    MIght wanna know that it took a simple majority to pass prop 13 in California...but it will take a 75% vote to increase taxes.


    here: (because you dont seem to know what you are talking about)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)



    California is attempting to fix its budget crisis by all conservative measures.

    Oregon is attempting liberal ones.



    lets see who climbs out first, and stronger?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey
    All good stuff there. So there's a few more kids in my kids' classroom - no difference. And boo hoo, we approved offshore drilling.

    Anyway, on subject - it's easy to vote to increase others' taxes.
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    what?

    If you are in town sometime, I'll take you to Alameda (Near Oakland) where they clean the High school semi-daily, because there arent enough janitors or money to clean the schools everyday. There is also no music or sports programs at these schools, thanks to Prop 13...


    which Ironically is the exact opposite of what you posted as being difficult. Somehow it was EASY to vote a property tax DECREASE in California.

    It has slowly destroyed our state. Ask any resident NOT living in Orange county.

    and honestly...you will be shedding some tears in the future with the uneducated, malnourished, unhealthy generation that supposidly will be taking care of us.


    crocodiles...
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey
    I'm a resident not living in OC, I'll ask myself :)

    My kids' schools laid off teachers, everything is fine. My 4th grader has the same teacher as my (now) 6th grader had for 4th grade; she has more kids but I don't see any difference from how it was two years ago. We still have music at our middle school but if we need to make further cuts I have no problem with that going. I'd much prefer my kids have an extra 30 minutes of math or english than screw around with a trumpet or whatever. We've been cut too (I live in CA, remember) and my kids' schools are just fine - not noticeably different from before the cuts.
  8. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there are/were more people voting that made less than $250,000 a year, than there were that made more. That's some vote. Says a lot really.

    BTW, I sure bet it will help Oregon balance their loss short term. The problem will be in future years, when fewer people making good money will want to move, and/or live there. Understand that higher earners, even at lower rates, pay more actual dollars in total taxes. A large population of $50k earners will mean a lot of debt, since the total dollar figure confiscated will be low, in comparrison to taxing a population with a larger portion of higher earners.
  9. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Really? California has balanced its budget? I thought they were still 20 billion in the red? Can you send me a link to an article that details this there, smart one?

    Oregon will learn, eventually, that its "government spending, stupid"! There's not a problem with the amount of income, it's the amount of money that is wasted. Silly liberals.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    gee....

    here are the 1st three articles that came up when I used "google". Its a website search engine that uses words you type to find websites that might conatin information that could be useful to the user.


    uggggghhhhhhhh.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/us/25calif.html

    July 2009 Budget Package

    July 24, 2009 - California Budget Crisis - Resolved, For Now
  11. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Thanks for those articles DATED LAST JULY 2009!

    Here, for your reading pleasure, is an article from just a few days ago:

    Stop looking to feds to cure California's budget crisis

    Before you start calling people stupid, maybe you should check your facts, you know, so you don't end up looking completely stupid yourself.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  12. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Let me add:

    Where have all those tax raises gotten your state? Answer: Into a fiscal mess and financial failure.

    Have fun, Oregon. Witness your future.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  13. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Huh? you are citing an article that is talking about state taxes vs what the feds deliver to the state?

    YOU claimed California didnt have a balanced budget. I showed you the last budget passed. You somehow point to an article about federal tax reimbursment?

    back on track...


    This budget gap yearly occurance in California. Prop 13 is the cause of lack of revenue for our state. We turned to all of the conservative mantras to balance it. Oregon went the other way.


    For all your kicking and screaming, you'd better hope thsi experiment works in Cali...we are the worlds 8th largest economy, now operating on a conservative budget.
  14. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    No, the problem is not Prop. 13 and lack of revenue - California is already overtaxed as it is - the problem is the spending. Overspending is the source of your problem.

    Why do you think so many business and citizens are leaving California? Because the taxes s*ck and makes life unbearable because the cost of living is not worth it.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    What Buisness leaving ?

    Apple? Nope
    Disney? Nope
    Sun? Nope
    Oracle? Nope
    Chevron? Nope
    HP? Nope
    Cisco? Nope
    GAP? Nope
    Direct TV? Nope
    Google? Nope
    Hilton? Nope
    Yahoo? Nope
    Ebay? Nope




    wow....for such an overtaxed (in your opinion) state....its crazy that we are able to be the home of so many companies ....

    J$,

    Do you live here? (By Here I mean Cali)
  16. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Intestate Bakeries? Yup
    Custom Stamping? Yup
    Metalist International, Inc? Yup
    Fidelity National Financial? Yup
    Buck Knives? Yup
    Toyota? Yup
    Aircraft Seal & Gasket? Yup
    Black Diamond? Yup

    Ain't google a *****?
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    hahahahah!

    you don't know how funny you are.....YES google is a B!TCCCH!

    Where do I start?

    Lets go with FNF first.
    =====================================================
    Fidelity National Financial to Move Its Headquarters to Jacksonville, Fla.
    Article: Fidelity National Financial to Move Its Headquarters to Jacksonville, Fla. - Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

    NOTE: 2003
    ======================================================
    BuckKNives
    Buck Knives moving to northern Idaho town
    Buck Knives moving to northern Idaho town | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET
    Cheaper workers compensation payments, lower labor costs and less expensive electricity bills are luring the famed sport and utility knife manufacturer Buck Knives Inc. from California to Idaho.

    Buck said he sometimes gets disgruntled letters from customers asking why their knife has a "made in Taiwan" sticker. But he said that over the years it has been necessary to shift some production to Asia to keep manufacturing the $19.95 and $25.95 knives demanded by retailers such as Wal-Mart.

    Buck Knives anticipates $34 million in sales this year.

    NOTE: The article is from 2004
    ===============================================================
    Metalist INTL.
    Welcome to Metalist International

    No mention of California at all on the website or in its History statement.
    ===============================================================




    Looks as if NONE of these companies left becuase of the current budget crisis in CA. And the one that seems to have done so on some scale was making most of its product (85%) in Taiwan.



    yeah.....


    google is a *****HH....but is also still in CALIFORNIA!
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Ah....HELLO Holy One! As I'm sure you know, Oregon is one of the bastions of "Granola-Head" liberals in the nation...you do know this, right?

    So this was actually expected and not a sign or a message...just expected.

    Oregon....home of Nike and on-site work playgrounds.

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    so?

    Is California full of Loony Liberal pinheads too? I thought we were?

    Funny too.....Isnt Mass also full of Blue liberals? They just elected a TeaBagger...

    be careful when making generalizations
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dems are retiring and refusing to run all over the country this says it all. Biden's kid won't even run in Delaware..... :singing:
  21. MrSparkle

    MrSparkle Rookie

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    No man, he's right. This is most certainly a very clear message that liberal values are, in fact, desired across this nation. This very vote signals that even though the Libs in Mass have lost their mind and let a tea bagger get elected. That by no way means the message is deluted, the liberal agenda is still strong.

    Keep pressing for Big Gov and Big Spending. Keep adding entitlement packages that cost billions and billions. The country yearns for more of these.
















    I think I have to take a shower, I feel dirty.
  22. Real American Hero

    Real American Hero Rookie

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    Ok, I stay out of this area for good reason, but I am not sure I actually saw an Oregon poster in here. First off, Nike was the biggest opponent of this because they have been skirting under the radar on their tax payments for years. Second, this move moves us from the 49th lowest corporate tax rate all the way up to a whopping 46th!!! Third, we don't have a sales tax so even our high income tax rate which is paid by everyone making over 16k annually (which of course is 100% fed tax deductible unlike sales taxes) is a bit of an overstatement.

    These two measures were not without flaws, notably the fact that they were retroactive to 2009, stemming from the fact that these were passed in the legislature last year but quirks in Oregon tax law allows them to be referred back to the ballot. So its not like there wasn't fair warning, but it sucks if you failed to plan or were just being optimistic that they wouldn't pass.

    C-Corps also get hit with a minimum tax rate based on revenue not profit, but this doesn't effect LLCs or S-Corps which just see their minimum move from $10 to $150. So if you have over a half million dollars in sales revenue and don't turn a profit this stings. If you're a small family business that isn't profitable and can't even draw consistent paychecks (and I have friends in this group) then it really, really hurts. But that's partially because our taxes were far too low to begin with. $10? Seriously now.

    So yeah, its flawed. But the reality is we were facing 4 day school weeks and draconian cuts to public services. I've lived in California and have a number of friends who are public employees and their lives have been spun upside down thanks to the mandatory furloughs on top of having their pay rates slashed by 5-10% over the past 2 years.

    If the state goes down the toilet well it can't really be much worse than where we were already. Its also highly unfortunate that states like CA and OR see a huge chunk of their federal tax dollars shipped out of state and "low tax" states often receive huge chunks of our money. That is the real cause for outrage in my book, but that's for another day.
  23. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Maryland did the same thing and the rich fled to low tax states.......


    Md. 'millionaire's tax' debate is back

    As [FONT=&quot]The Sun[/FONT] reports, the Maryland state comptroller found that the number of state residents with net taxable income of $1 million or more declined from 7,067 in 2007 to 4,910 last year — the lowest number in four years. Maryland Republicans who opposed hiking taxes on millionaires in 2008 predicted that the higher rates would drive the wealthy to move to other states with lower income taxes. Democrats refuted that notion.
    Top Payers Fade Away - Baltimore Sun
    But as the state comptroller's office sifts through this year's returns, it is finding that the number of Marylanders with more than $1 million in taxable income who filed by the end of April has fallen by one-third, to about 2,000. Taxes collected from those returns as of last month have declined by roughly $100 million.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  24. PatriotsReign

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    Here's a very interesting article on Oregon's recent vote....

    Oregon's Death Spiral; Business Owners Say "I'm moving out"

    Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Oregon's Death Spiral; Business Owners Say "I'm moving out"

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  25. Real American Hero

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    Sure they'll threaten, very few will actually do it. How many liberals threatened to move to Canada or Europe if Bush won a second term and how many followed through? Some already had plans to move out, the article mentioned a company moving to China. Obviously the other 49 states aren't any better. Like I said, this tax moved us from the 49th most heavily taxed state to the 46th.

    The article cited malls closing. How is that unique to Oregon? Its national chain stores that are going under in the malls, the diamond stores, many competing shops have merged leaving vacancies when malls don't need to have a Software Etc, Gamestop and EB in 3 corners, etc. That isn't because some new tax law, its because online shopping and a few big box stores have won out and the other B&M shops couldn't compete. Quite a few strip malls suffered thanks to CompUSA and Circuit City going under, but CC actually stayed open in Oregon for 3 or 4 months longer than most other states. Retail outlets aren't going to move from Portland to Washington for one big reason. WA residents already cross the river here to do all their shopping so they can have the best of both worlds of no income tax in their home state and tax free shopping the next town over. WA has the 3rd highest sales tax in the country, they can halve the difference and everyone comes out ahead.

    If armageddon actually happens well then laugh at me for being wrong and be glad you don't live here. But I suspect when the dust settles things will get better and not worse.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010

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