The Onslought of Tebow Only Fans (TOF)

[Triumph]

All of the players listed by you and CPF = undrafteds that had meager scouting/reporting. They were uninspected produce.

Tebow = 1st round pick who is the most dissected QB in the history of the game.

If you cannot see the difference there, I can't help you.

31 teams just passed on Tebow like he was garbage.

I dont care what round he was initially drafted in because the NFL has basically written him off except for BB. Who gives a crap about Tebows time with the Jets?

 

[shmessy]

31 teams just passed on Tebow like he was garbage.

I dont care what round he was initially drafted in because the NFL has basically written him off except for BB. Who gives a crap about Tebows time with the Jets?

"31 teams just passed on Tebow like he was garbage."

.......AFTER his NFL game experience was inspected under the microscope.

You and CPF are comparing that to college unknowns who were passed over due to lack of scouting.

Sorry, dude, but there is no analogy there. You're trying to manufacture one, but it doesn't exist.

As I wrote before, show me a 1st round pick QB who was able to retool his throwing motion after 3 years of closely examined real game experience in the NFL to become an effective QB.

Perhaps there has been such a player.

That would have some value in this discussion.

Your continued comparisons of this situation with a Victor Cruz or a Miles Austin is just a waste of time.

 

[Triumph]

I have no idea.

Let 'em fight it out.

Currently, Mallett is #2 because he has 2 years in the system with the playbook. Tebow is coming in raw at the moment and has to learn the playbook. If you think Tebow is right now the #2, then that is pretty funny.

Tebow isnt raw.

The Pats run a similar spread to Urban Meyers UF offense. Evidently you have missed where BB used to visit Urban Meyer every spring at UF on his way to Jimmy Johnsons house. Furthermore, Tebow was drafted by McDaniels and ran his offense for a year.

Whats funny is that you are ignorant of these facts. But Ill tell you what.

Ive got $50 that says Tebow not only makes the roster as a QB but is valuable in the offense to this coming Pats season.

Mallet's game is currently suited to the current Patriots passing offense.

Either McDaniels would have to retool the Pats offense or Tebow will have to restructure his throwing in order for Tebow to play as a NE QB.

The Pats totally changed gears when Cassel was starting and became a top 5 rushing team. So, dont sing me that song.

 

[Triumph]

"31 teams just passed on Tebow like he was garbage."

.......AFTER his NFL game experience was inspected under the microscope.

You and CPF are comparing that to college unknowns who were passed over due to lack of scouting.

Sorry, dude, but there is no analogy there. You're trying to manufacture one, but it doesn't exist.

The point is that NFL Execs make mistakes.

They made them with Welker and just because 31 team said no thanks to Tebow doeant make them all knowing about who succeeds in the NFL and who does not.

As I wrote before, show me a 1st round pick QB who was able to retool his throwing motion after 3 years of closely examined real game experience in the NFL to become an effective QB.

As I stated before, Tebow is not a QB who you would like in a shootout. With a top 5 defense he could win ugly like Brady did in 2001.

Perhaps there has been such a player.

That would have some value in this discussion.

Your continued comparisons of this situation with a Victor Cruz or a Miles Austin is just a waste of time.

No, they arent.

Simply examples of others players passed by.

 

[Ironman44]

Mods and forum members , John smith who signed up here and posted Tebow' college stats is a troll from the Denver Broncos forums

Just read about them laughing about it here

Tebow to the Patriots - Page 13

 

[shmessy]

Tebow isnt raw.

The Pats run a similar spread to Urban Meyers UF offense. Evidently you have missed where BB used to visit Urban Meyer every spring at UF on his way to Jimmy Johnsons house. Furthermore, Tebow was drafted by McDaniels and ran his offense for a year.

Whats funny is that you are ignorant of these facts. But Ill tell you what.

Ive got $50 that says Tebow not only makes the roster as a QB but is valuable in the offense to this coming Pats season.



The Pats totally changed gears when Cassel was starting and became a top 5 rushing team. So, dont sing me that song.

1) "Tebow isnt raw."

Okaaaayyyyyyy. I'll let others comment on that one.

In the meantime, I wrote that he is "raw" specifically in regards to the the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS playbook. Something Mallett has had his nose in the past 2 years.

2) "The Pats run a similar spread to Urban Meyers UF offense. Evidently you have missed where BB used to visit Urban Meyer every spring at UF on his way to Jimmy Johnsons house."

Yup. I have a name for you in that regard if you know anything about the "similar UF Urban Meyer offense" and the ability to translate that "similar offense" to the NE Patriots: On one of those visits, Meyer convinced BB to draft Chad Jackson. Perfect fit? Now Hernandez was also a Meyer alum, so that can be seen as a 50-50.

Once again, I have no idea what your aim is here. I will let Mallett and Tebow fight it out. You seem to want to predict the weather based on your vision that Tebow is already the guy. Sorry, but your racing to this conclusion is foolish.

 

[DarrylS]

The Pats run a similar spread to Urban Meyers UF offense. Evidently you have missed where BB used to visit Urban Meyer every spring at UF on his way to Jimmy Johnsons house. Furthermore, Tebow was drafted by McDaniels and ran his offense for a year.
.

He spent time every off season with Jimmy Johnson and Tony LaRussa, which means nothing...

You miss the whole purpose of Tebow, he is essentially here for a two year tryout with the Patriots, no other team wanted him. In the interim, if he makes the team, he will be the third string emergency quarterback.

If that was not allowed he would be essentially be inactive for most games.. the pats will not mess with this offense..

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Covertedpatsfan gave us a very good list of players who went unloved before hitting it big. However, each player he listed went undrafted and flew BENEATH THE RADAR before making his name. Tebow, on the other hand, was a first round pick. He's perhaps the most researched and dissected QB ever. He is the exact OPPOSITE of those players listed by Covertedpatsfan. Sorry, CPF, but you are comparing apples to candy bars there.

Agreed, but the list was an extreme example to counter Jackson2's assertion that a player must not have value if all teams pass on them.

We could also do a list of high-profile draft busts who find redemption on another team (Cedric Benson), or take several years to emerge (Alex Smith), but even those wouldn't be a fair comparison. He's had success, and except for an incredible set of circumstances where a HOF QB was made available, would probably still be a starting QB in this league.

Whatever set of circumstances we choose to use, there is a precedent. Again, still have serious doubts about Tebow even making the roster here, but it's not impossible for him to still become a productive NFL player is all I'm trying to say.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

By tons of players being missed by everyone, I meant lots of players go undrafted, skipped numerous times by every team, yet turn out to be players. The multiple years criteria wasn't part of the original equation, but I'll play along since it only takes ONE example to prove you wrong if you're saying it does not happen.

James Harrison went undrafted, signed with the Steelers, was cut 3 times while bouncing on and off the practice squad, signed with the Ravens the next year and played in NFL Europe before being cut again, then signed again with the Steelers. 3 years after everyone passed on him, he would start 3 games, and 2 more years would pass before he became a full-time starter.

So you're wrong, it happens.

Wait, there's more!

Wes Welker went undrafted, signed with the Chargers, got cut, played special teams for the Dolphins before starting to emerge in his third season with 67 catches, which still didn't indicate what he would become. Also worth noting: we drafted P.K. Sam the year Welker went undrafted.

Antonio Pierce signed as an UDFA with the Redskins and got to start 8 games his first season due to injuries, but played very little the next two seasons before getting a chance to start again due to injuries. He would become a starter and captain on the Giants D.

Bart Scott went undrafted, played special teams for 3 years at a high level but didn't get a chance to play defense until Ray Lewis was injured, then became a full-time starter for the Ravens and Jets.

Jason Peters went undrafted in 2004, signed with the Bills, and then got cut (by the Bills!), back to the practice squad, then wedge busting on ST for a few years before getting his chance in 2006 and becoming a full-time starter and Pro Bowler.

Fred Jackson went undrafted, tried out and didn't make it for the Bears, Broncos, and Packers, then spent 2 seasons in indoor football leagues, and another season in NFL Europe before catching on with the Bills, where he would spend 2 more seasons as a back-up until becoming a starter.

Maybe you think it happens only at other positions, that it couldn't possibly happen at the most important position on the field, quarterback.

Tell that to Jeff Garcia, who went undrafted, spent 5 years in the CFL before getting a chance in the NFL, then going onto 4 Pro Bowls.

Or Tony Romo, undrafted QB who sat the bench for 3 years, at risk of being cut until Quincy Carter failed a drug test, then went on to 3 Pro Bowls.

Or HOFer Warren Moon, who went undrafted and spent his first 6 seasons in the CFL before 9 Pro Bowls and 3 All Pros.

Or Kurt Warner, who went undrafted in 1994, signed with the Packers, got cut, played in the Arena Football League for several seasons before getting his chance with the Rams, parlaying it into 2 MVP trophies and a Super Bowl.

I'm not saying it happens a lot. And I'm not even saying Tim Tebow is going to join the list of names above.

All I'm saying is yes, it does happen. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

and Troy Brown, 12th round! cut for a couple years and languishing says Hi!

and Mike Vrable was nothing before...

But personally I don't think T2 will be a success. Hope to be wrong.

 

[Wretch]

I may be your first one- I'm an unabashed Tebow fan- Not much into pro football, more of a Gator lover. Got to know all the Denver players when he was there, and never enjoyed a season like that one ever. Thought Elway was a jerk and could never root for the Jets, but I did watch all their games hoping Ryan would wake up and put him in, but never happened- I do go to the 4th pre season game each year because I will at least get to see him play (I am a realist). No one thinks he is going to replace Brady (at least until he retires) I usually just troll- It always amazes me all the haters out there- Sad actually- So, is it hard to get preseason tickets??

Welcome to the board. Hopefully we can convince you to become a Patriots fan and not just a Tebow fan.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The far bigger problem is with those such as yourself obsessing incessantly about something yet to happen. The vast majority of posts here are from folks whining about Tebow this and Tebow that. Much ado from you (plural) about our 3rd string QB. Your comment has been made by dozens here dozens of times and it needed its own thread?

Yup!! The haters are just as obsessed as the Tebow fanatics. Both sides are equally bizarre.

 

[Oinko]

On this idea of "beneath the radar," which is an interesting one -- a couple of examples.

1. The last clear example I can think of for a really good "above the radar" quarterback who took a while to get there is Vinny Testeverde. Also a Heisman winner and almost national champion, Vinny was not in a good situation for his development with the Bucs. And he took quite a while to get his efficiency up -- he just kept plugging, year 3, year 4, year 5, etc. He's a different story from Tebow in many ways (he was prototypical in his throwing), but there are some similarities (the knock on him was reading defenses, and also his overall athletic prowess is probably what got him to the top.

2. Rich Gannon is one who could fit the model for Tebow -- although drafted in the 4th Round (so that part doesn't hold up to the Tebow Radar thing), he was probably drafted about where Tebow should have been (in hindsight). Gannon came from a Wing-T college offense, and had to reinvent himself mechanically to become a good pro. He kept bubbling up to the surface (Vikings and Raiders), and before he was done was one of the best. So it does happen -- a quarterback with the innate talent can learn, even if it takes 5 years. It's sort of a thing of the past with the new era of Luck and RGIII, but sometimes a guy needs to actually work at it a few years.

 

[Off The Grid]

On this idea of "beneath the radar," which is an interesting one -- a couple of examples.

1. The last clear example I can think of for a really good "above the radar" quarterback who took a while to get there is Vinny Testeverde. Also a Heisman winner and almost national champion, Vinny was not in a good situation for his development with the Bucs. And he took quite a while to get his efficiency up -- he just kept plugging, year 3, year 4, year 5, etc. He's a different story from Tebow in many ways (he was prototypical in his throwing), but there are some similarities (the knock on him was reading defenses, and also his overall athletic prowess is probably what got him to the top.

2. Rich Gannon is one who could fit the model for Tebow -- although drafted in the 4th Round (so that part doesn't hold up to the Tebow Radar thing), he was probably drafted about where Tebow should have been (in hindsight). Gannon came from a Wing-T college offense, and had to reinvent himself mechanically to become a good pro. He kept bubbling up to the surface (Vikings and Raiders), and before he was done was one of the best. So it does happen -- a quarterback with the innate talent can learn, even if it takes 5 years. It's sort of a thing of the past with the new era of Luck and RGIII, but sometimes a guy needs to actually work at it a few years.

Tremendous Post, Brother.

Jim Plunkett comes to mind, as well.

Why can't we get QuarterBacks like Jim Plunkett & Rich Gannon??

:welcome:

 

[Kontradiction]

1) "Tebow isnt raw."

Okaaaayyyyyyy. I'll let others comment on that one.

In the meantime, I wrote that he is "raw" specifically in regards to the the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS playbook. Something Mallett has had his nose in the past 2 years.

2) "The Pats run a similar spread to Urban Meyers UF offense. Evidently you have missed where BB used to visit Urban Meyer every spring at UF on his way to Jimmy Johnsons house."

Yup. I have a name for you in that regard if you know anything about the "similar UF Urban Meyer offense" and the ability to translate that "similar offense" to the NE Patriots: On one of those visits, Meyer convinced BB to draft Chad Jackson. Perfect fit? Now Hernandez was also a Meyer alum, so that can be seen as a 50-50.

Once again, I have no idea what your aim is here. I will let Mallett and Tebow fight it out. You seem to want to predict the weather based on your vision that Tebow is already the guy. Sorry, but your racing to this conclusion is foolish.

Just one bone to pick, Jackson was a Ron Zook product. He only spent one year in Meyer's system. Meyer vouched for him because of his raw athletic skill set. Otherwise, Jackson was a dumb ass.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Here's a good example from Ironman.... (scroll to the bottom of the link pg). Trolls who are TOF and root against the Patriots

Mods and forum members , John smith who signed up here and posted Tebow' college stats is a troll from the Denver Broncos forums Who is not a Tebow fan

Just read about it here

Tebow to the Patriots - Page 13

 

[Big_Wheel]

I remember a left handed quarterback drafted in the first round of a "supplemental" draft who most in the NFL said was too prone to lower the ball and take off and run, had a terrible throwing motion, and would never be a conventional NFL drop back passer.

He started 5 games his rookie year and had a completion percent of 52.2%, 3TD/8 INT and a 56.9 passer rating (by comparison Tims rookie year - 3 games started 50% Completion, 5 TD/ 3 INT and 82.1 rating). In his second year he started 14 games - 53.7% completion, 8 TD/ 13 INT and a 65.5 rating (by comparison Tims second year - 11 games, 46.5% completion, 12 TD / 6 INT -but also 660 yds rusing, 5.4 YPC and another 6 TDs on the ground).

That guy was considered to be a first round bust and was put on the trading block. A BB-type coach in a successful BB-type system thought he could do something with him and traded for him and he sat fora number of years behind, at that time, the best QB in the game.

The coach? Bill Walsh
The guy? Steve Young

 

[Kontradiction]

I may be your first one- I'm an unabashed Tebow fan- Not much into pro football, more of a Gator lover. Got to know all the Denver players when he was there, and never enjoyed a season like that one ever. Thought Elway was a jerk and could never root for the Jets, but I did watch all their games hoping Ryan would wake up and put him in, but never happened- I do go to the 4th pre season game each year because I will at least get to see him play (I am a realist). No one thinks he is going to replace Brady (at least until he retires) I usually just troll- It always amazes me all the haters out there- Sad actually- So, is it hard to get preseason tickets??

Fellow Gator fan here. Honest question, though (and not meant to offend): Were you a Gator fan before Tebow came along? Or did you come aboard in '06?

 

[g8orballboy]

Fellow Gator fan here. Honest question, though (and not meant to offend): Were you a Gator fan before Tebow came along? Or did you come aboard in '06?

Another Gator fan here... figured now's as good a time as any to jump in for my first post. I was born in Gainesville and bleed orange and blue. I worked for the team as a student manager and my last year was Tim's first. I root for all gators but Tim was a different animal. Never met anyone like him. All the good things you hear are true and he is 100% genuine. I'm no patriot fan and have lived in Baltimore the last 5 years so (sorry) but I've become a pretty hardcore Raven fan. I still root for Tim and like to follow his rather interesting career. I think he can succeed as a QB in the league and I think he's found himself in a GREAT situation here. I'm happy for him and hope it works out as I think he may finally get a chance to sit and develop the way he was supposed to coming out of college with no pressure, a coach who believes in him (McDaniels), and the all time best qb to ever play the game in front of him mentoring him. I won't post too often but will lurk for news on Tim. You guys run a great board here and seem to be MUCH more welcoming and ... well... mature than the slime over at Gang Green.

 

[Kontradiction]

Shocked that this hasn't been posted yet (all in good fun, of course)...

 

[shmessy]

Another Gator fan here... figured now's as good a time as any to jump in for my first post. I was born in Gainesville and bleed orange and blue. I worked for the team as a student manager and my last year was Tim's first. I root for all gators but Tim was a different animal. Never met anyone like him. All the good things you hear are true and he is 100% genuine. I'm no patriot fan and have lived in Baltimore the last 5 years so (sorry) but I've become a pretty hardcore Raven fan. I still root for Tim and like to follow his rather interesting career. I think he can succeed as a QB in the league and I think he's found himself in a GREAT situation here. I'm happy for him and hope it works out as I think he may finally get a chance to sit and develop the way he was supposed to coming out of college with no pressure, a coach who believes in him (McDaniels), and the all time best qb to ever play the game in front of him mentoring him. I won't post too often but will lurk for news on Tim. You guys run a great board here and seem to be MUCH more welcoming and ... well... mature than the slime over at Gang Green.

Thanks, much appreciated!

For obvious reasons, we're (usually) in a much better mood than Jets fans.