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The only indispensable part is William Belichick (not Tom Brady)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Dec 31, 2008.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Without Tom Brady, with massive injuries to key starters all across the team, and with a backup QB who last started in high school, the Patriots finished 11-5 with the NFL's 2nd highest scoring offense and a top 10 defense, and were destroying teams in December for a strong potential playoff run. Any of the above factors (top QB down, numerous starter injuries, grooming an inexperienced QB and lots of other rookies to boot) would have crippled most other franchises' chances.

    Tom Brady is my favorite football player ever, but the most recent season has ended the debate:
    William Belichick is the only indispensable part when it comes to long term Patriot success.

    Even if Brady's knee never heals, even if Pioli and the entire coaching staff leaves, the Patriots will continue to roll, over time, as long as William Belichick is the head coach of the team.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You're right although Brady can be the special player that pushes Belichick's teams from perennial contenders to back to back SB champions. What is easy to forget is that whoever leaves, Belichick just knows too many people in football to be left wanting. Pioli could leave and that would hurt. But Belichick will have someone ready to replace him. Just like he did when Weiss left. And when Crennel left. Mangini's leaving early probably surprised him but he still had a guy ready to Saban wanted to hire to be his DC at Miami. I remember when he started in Cleveland and hired a little known coach from the University of Toledo to be his Defensive Coordinator. Never heard of him. All these years later, though, Nick Saban is doing just fine. Between his contacts from his dad, himself and his massive coaching/front office tree, a loss can only hurt so much when you have a wide range from which to replace them.
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    why must we contast the two? Both are equally important.
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    No, they're not. That is the point.
  5. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    Maybe you missed it, and don't get me wrong BB did a hell of a job considering the injuries, but with the easiest scheduale I think I have ever seen as a Pats fan they missed the playoffs. BB is probably the best coach ever but even the best can't win without talent. Check out the performance of the defense over the past few years if you need more evidence. I'm not blaming the defensive collapses on BB I'm blaming it on a lack of talent to work with. Anyone willing to right off Brady as a needed component of Patriot's success is a fool.
  6. Schmo

    Schmo Rookie

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    Bob Kraft has a bit to do with this team's success (imagine if Al Davis was our owner). Kraft, Pioli and Belichick are what makes this franchise great... but as far as greatest impact, you are right.

    In Bill we trust!
  7. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    What team's did they destroy in December and what were the circumstances?

    12/7 Seahawks

    One of the worst teams in the league with just as many decimating injuries as the Patriots minus the hall of fame quarterback. Oh and they almost lost the game.

    12/14 Raiders

    Once again one of the worst teams in the league, maybe the worst team of the decade, who made no effort to tackle at any point during the game.

    12/21 Cardinals

    I have been watching football since the mid 90's and I have never seen a team give such a pathetic performance in my entire life. They gave up before they met at center field for the coin toss. And yes I am counting preseason football in my statement.

    12/28 Bills

    A tough division game and the only one that gives credence to your argument. BB outcoached Dick all over the field and was probably the major difference in the game.

    Bottom line is BB did great this year with what he had to deal with but to dismiss Brady and his accomplishments along with all the other players and what they contribute is homerism at best. The Pats win because of the players they assemble on the field and the way they respond to coaching. Seriously go back and look at their scheduale this year if Brady is their QB they are pushing 16-0 again.
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Saying they missed the playoffs is true but stupid given that they're the second team since the merger to miss the playoffs with 11 wins. Regarding the schedule, their opponents had a .480 winning %, not a tough schedule but a representative one.
  9. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    BB didn't coach the team to give up two forth quarter TD's in the Superbowl against the Giants and he didn't coach them to give up 30 second half points to the Colts in the 06 AFC Championship. He just didn't have the defensive talent to prevent it from happening. Football is the ultimate team game. Coaches can't win without players and players can't win without coaches. Ask Wade Phillips or the recently fired Mike Shanahan.
  10. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    Yes they had 11 wins and they did deserve the playoffs. They had a great year don't misinterpret what I'm saying. They accomplished more then most fans ever thought possible. But to take what they did this season, with the scheduale they had, and try to argue that BB is the sole indespensible part of this orginazation does a huge disservice to the players who took the field this year.
  11. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    The Pats went 11-5 this year

    The Dolphins went 11-5 this year

    The Jets went 10-6 this year


    In 2001 the Pats earned a 1st round bye with a 11-5 record. Do you honestly think this year's Pats or Dolphins or Jets, all with similar records, hold a candle to the 2001 Pats in terms of talent or coaching? We played the AFC East AFC West and NFC West all year for Gods sake.
  12. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    What's stupid is ignoring the obvious correlation between a team reaching 11 wins and not reaching the playoffs. If I was a partial observer I would guess there were probably a lot of extremely bad teams in the NFL this year which would allow the marginally good teams to compile inflated records. Then I would look at the Patriot's scheduale and observe that they spent the entire season playing the worst teams in the league. Once again I am not downplaying the value of BB and what he did for the team this year. I'm more astonished that long time Pat's fans can't see what that the 11-5 record wasn't smoke, mirrors and magic spells from the coaching staff but an all around effort from the entire team to get them those 11 wins.

    BB did great but facts are facts and this team is where it should be record or not, on the outside looking in when the playoffs begin. If they had beaten the Colts, even competed with the Steelers or Chargers, or not split the series with the Dolphins my argument would be moot. If you can't beat a playoff team during the regular season how can you make an argument that you belong in the postseason. And please please please don't bring up the Cardinals as a playoff team.
  13. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    belichik pretty much proved this year that it's the system and the HC, not the qb and the players

    brady is very good, but look what belichik just did with a guy who hadn't ever started since HS.....his stats in his first season starting were amazing when compared to brady's 1st year starting stats
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  14. jared2181

    jared2181 Rookie

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    BB is so good he should just sign all scrubs to the roster. Why does he even bother keeping Brady or Seymour or Wilfork or Warren or the offensive line? Why did the team trade for Moss or Welker when Doug Gabriel and Reche Caldwell are available? He could save Kraft a lot of money and still keep the team at the borderline of the playoffs because of his magic powers. Hopefully the NFL helps him by handing the Pats a cake scheduale like they had in 2008 and avoiding giving them the kind of scheduale they had in 2007.
  15. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler Rookie

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    Obviously many parts are needed to make a win. But SB loss to the Giants or not, anyone watching the Patriots over the last 7 years should clearly see how BB is the critical component. We routinely beat more talented teams. In the age of the Salary cap to be in the mix this regularly? That ain't by mistake or because we had talent.
    And to lose a QB of TB's ability and take a raw QB that last started in high school, and get 11 wins with him? It's unbelievable (couldn't care less about the easy schedule argument. The injuries this team had and still get 11 wins? Incredible).
  16. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan Rookie

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    I have never been a big fan of putting your eggs in one basket. It is a team sport.

    I certainly see your point in saying that if Belichick left or if certain key kogs left, a tipping point would be created and the team would start to spiral, and to some degree it is valid....

    Something does not sit well with this statement though. With the culture moulded, I would like to see Brady try a season without Belichick.

    Make no mistake however, BB is however the man that would make key decisions so he is vitally important.

    However, come on, you have to give some credit to the players. Yes BB had a say in who comes in here and what system gets used, however the players make the plays.

    Give them SOME credit...;)
  17. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    You need players to win. The coach can put those players in a position to succeed, but they still have to do it. Talent is the #1 most important part of a team.

    Without Tom Brady, do the Pats win even one SB? Probably not. Are they still halfway decent? Probably.
  18. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    With Brady they are a virtual lock for the off season, without Brady they are not. With Brady we won 3 Super Bowls and marched to a 18-0 Super Bowl appearance.

    What you have done is minimize Cassel's play this year and relegate Brady to a serviceable QB or worse a System QB. Brady is possibly the greatest of all time, and Cassel may be a lot better than you are giving him credit for being.

    Sorry, I could not disagree more with your comments and the tone of this thread.

    However, I will agree that Bill's ability to adapt and game plan is second to none and someday I hope the AFC Championship Trophy is re-named.
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    You "may" be right moving forward, but it is clear that Brady was equally important in winning 3 super bowls. Without Brady, it is highly likely we would have zero super bowl championships at this point in time.

    Brady is not just awesome, he is one of the best ever. So is Belichick. But it's impossible to say that belichick is the reason we've won so many championships.
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    JC, you wouldn't be trying to stir the pot of the Pats fan base, would you? ;)

    You need to accept the fact that Brady is one of the best of all time. He is one of 2 QB's in the NFL at the historically elite level. The other one being Peyton Manning.

    All the most highly respected pro football analysts agree. That's why there have been dozens of articles over the past 8 years comparing these 2. You really don't want me to attached dozens of links supporting this view, do you?
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
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