The official Richard Seymour is OVERRATED Thread.

[Mogamedogz]

Exactly. The Whiner Line is the best part of the show. Hey, maybe I whine too much. That's just how I was raised watching sports in Boston, LOL! It's what we do best.

That's what makes me think that allot of the people bashing you for being "too critical" are not even "homegrown" fans of the team.

It's like they are "SHOCKED" to hear "glass half empty" point of views.

IMO, it's either one of two things...

1) People have gotten spoiled
2) People dont completely understand the culture here

 

[National Sports Advisors]

I have a bad feeling about Richard's health. I cannot imagine him being dominated without something being wrong.

It's possible that the lack of strength in the knee is causing him to be sub-par. I don't really know, but I don't think you're out of line calling him out. I just wouldn't overlook the injury possibility, or go to such great lengths to exaggerate his lack of worth to the team. If he was not worth putting on the field, they simply would bench him.

I think there's something wrong. I wouldn't rag on a warrior like Richard until proven otherwise.

Good point. I love Seymour. I want him to be the player he was. By all accounts, he seems like a great guy and a great teammate. Rodney Harrison loves him. Looks upto him. I dunno, I'm just frustrated with the level of play I see from him. We need this guy. We need everyone to step up their games because this level of defense is just not going to get it done for long. The last thing we want is to be biting our nails in the 4th quarters against Indy and Dallas.

 

[scout]

Been a Pats fan since the age of 4. Remember watching the 3-13 (and similar) seasons with my Dad while growing up. Definitely not a troll in this thread, but trying to be unbiased. So here goes: I've been reading comments here (in particular, by NSA) and feel that NSA is not trolling, but being critically aware of this team's actual and potential weaknesses. He is constantly being bashed while making generally intelligent and valid critical statements. The Pats have been showing holes (big ones) in the defense at times, but do make the big stop when the game is on the line. Seymour and company were getting bullied last night. Read this thread in particular: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=69509.
I feel that there is a big homeristic (is this a word?) effect on this site at times, and that's normal for any home team's website. However, I feel that sometimes we put on blinders when talking about something we don't want to see/hear about our beloved Patriots. I am not saying I always agree or disagree with NSA and others, but just giving my $0.02.

Really? Maybe you should search NSA threads, the names of Patriots he bashes are a who's who of this decade. Kind of hard to come back and post about the good play of those Patriots when you have bashed, 'been critical' of them. Bruschi had 10 tackles last night, gee maybe he's not washed up after all. Seymour is highly thought of by BB and Pioli and coaches, players around the league. Some saying he is the second best player on the team. His duties do not allow him to achieve the stats of others, thus you will not hear broadcasters going insane over his play, thus, the 'draft Mcfadden' fans pout about his abilities. Most will say the defensive line is one of the best, evidently this doesn't include Warren either. Maroney did 'ok' last night. Well, maybe that critic can name one Patriot player who stood out last night. Just name one Patriot player who had an outstanding game...............................................................I guess the kicker did 'ok'.

 

[FrontSeven]

I've been reading comments here (in particular, by NSA) and feel that NSA is not trolling, but being critically aware of this team's actual and potential weaknesses.

Generally, I agree. If we start only wanting to hear positive news then that is pretty lame.

In the case of calling Richard the most overrated player in the league, I'd have to say that's really stretching a valuable theme to where few will want to listen. My sense is that Richard is not as dominant as in years past, but I don't know that for sure. I also sense that his knee may not be all the way back and I can't see lambasting a guy for playing with a sub-par knee.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

That's what makes me think that allot of the people bashing you for being "too critical" are not even "homegrown" fans of the team.

It's like they are "SHOCKED" to hear "glass half empty" point of views.

IMO, it's either one of two things...

1) People have gotten spoiled
2) People dont completely understand the culture here

Exactly. I think anyone that witnessed the buffoonery of the Red Sox up until the last few years has been permanently scarred for life and always has the "waiting for the other shoe to drop" way of thinking. I remember in the 2001 super bowl when we ran back the TD only to have it called back because of Willie's penalty. Right then and there I thought we were going to lose, LOL! I dunno, I just always fear the worst I guess.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Really? Maybe you should search NSA threads, the names of Patriots he bashes are a who's who of this decade. Kind of hard to come back and post about the good play of those Patriots when you have bashed, 'been critical' of them. Bruschi had 10 tackles last night, gee maybe he's not washed up after all. Seymour is highly thought of by BB and Pioli and coaches, players around the league. Some saying he is the second best player on the team. His duties do not allow him to achieve the stats of others, thus you will not hear broadcasters going insane over his play, thus, the 'draft Mcfadden' fans pout about his abilities. Most will say the defensive line is one of the best, evidently this doesn't include Warren either. Maroney did 'ok' last night. Well, maybe that critic can name one Patriot player who stood out last night. Just name one Patriot player who had an outstanding game...............................................................I guess the kicker did 'ok'.

I can't call out Tedy Bruschi? The guy WAS a GREAT player for us. He is still a solid player, but I just want to see more of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Bruschi. The guy had 3 forced fumbles and 2 INTS in 2001, 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2003, and 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2004. He was a BIG PLAY man. Hey, he has ZERO INTS and ZERO forced fumbles this year. I'm not attacking the guy's character. He is a great team leader and has been a flat out WARRIOR for us! However, it is fair to ask why we are not getting the production this year. Maybe he has lost a lot from his game. Everyone does eventually. That's all I'm saying. He had 10 tackles last night, but how many were past 5 yards down the field?

 

[Pats_AZ]

The defense is playing terrible RIGHT NOW. Do you think our defense is playing the kind of football needed to win the super bowl? Do you honestly think our defense is going to be able to play like this and stop Tony Romo and Peyton Manning? I mean, seriously. The problem with BIG SEY is NOT that he is a bad player, but that he is NOT playing like a GREAT PLAYER. That's why he gets paid the big money. No sacks, no hurries, no forced fumbles, no tackles behind the line of scrimmage, no tackles at the line of scrimmage, nothing.

Yes i do believe this defense can beat Romo and Manning. They have already this year.

 

[Maroney TD]

I can't call out Tedy Bruschi? The guy WAS a GREAT player for us. He is still a solid player, but I just want to see more of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Bruschi. The guy had 3 forced fumbles and 2 INTS in 2001, 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2003, and 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2004. He was a BIG PLAY man. Hey, he has ZERO INTS and ZERO forced fumbles this year. I'm not attacking the guy's character. He is a great team leader and has been a flat out WARRIOR for us! However, it is fair to ask why we are not getting the production this year. Maybe he has lost a lot from his game. Everyone does eventually. That's all I'm saying. He had 10 tackles last night, but how many were past 5 yards down the field?

Dude, all you do is ***** and moan about everybody with a select few players being your main targets. Its shocking to me that the Pats are 12-0 with the way you think half the team sucks. I can't imagine what your like when your team's you know, actually lose a game. Just by scrolling through your posts your the most negative person I've ever heard which seriously makes me question if your even a fan. I don't get why you follow the team when you dislike so many players on that team.

Seriously, take a step away from the ledge and relax a bit. Try enjoying the undefeated season instead of harping on every little thing. The Pats are undefeated for a reason and since BB knows more about football than you why don't you leave who should be getting cut up to him since you have no idea what your talking about. Thanks.

 

[glutton79]

Good point. I love Seymour. I want him to be the player he was. By all accounts, he seems like a great guy and a great teammate. Rodney Harrison loves him. Looks upto him. I dunno, I'm just frustrated with the level of play I see from him. We need this guy. We need everyone to step up their games because this level of defense is just not going to get it done for long. The last thing we want is to be biting our nails in the 4th quarters against Indy and Dallas.

I don't think the fact that you question the defense, or individual players, is what bothers people. there are obviously valid criticisms to be made against this team, and I'll be the first to say the run defense was making me tear my hair out last night. but I think you tend to do it in a "the sky is falling!" sort of fashion which comes across as extremely negative. and since I haven't seen you post a lot of positive comments... I mean, can you really blame people for thinking all you do is bash players?

 

[Seacoast Fan]

I can't call out Tedy Bruschi? The guy WAS a GREAT player for us. He is still a solid player, but I just want to see more of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Bruschi. The guy had 3 forced fumbles and 2 INTS in 2001, 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2003, and 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2004. He was a BIG PLAY man. Hey, he has ZERO INTS and ZERO forced fumbles this year. I'm not attacking the guy's character. He is a great team leader and has been a flat out WARRIOR for us! However, it is fair to ask why we are not getting the production this year. Maybe he has lost a lot from his game. Everyone does eventually. That's all I'm saying. He had 10 tackles last night, but how many were past 5 yards down the field?

So, name one patriot who had an outstanding game last night.

and, here's a hard one for you...name three Patroits who you would put in the top 2 or 3 at their postion in the league.

go ahead, we'll wait.....

 

[BradyToMoss]

I can't call out Tedy Bruschi? The guy WAS a GREAT player for us. He is still a solid player, but I just want to see more of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Bruschi. The guy had 3 forced fumbles and 2 INTS in 2001, 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2003, and 3 forced fumbles and 3 INTS in 2004. He was a BIG PLAY man. Hey, he has ZERO INTS and ZERO forced fumbles this year. I'm not attacking the guy's character. He is a great team leader and has been a flat out WARRIOR for us! However, it is fair to ask why we are not getting the production this year. Maybe he has lost a lot from his game. Everyone does eventually. That's all I'm saying. He had 10 tackles last night, but how many were past 5 yards down the field?

I think it's pretty obvious that Bruschi is on the "Back 9". I don't think that has to be even mentioned, I'm pretty sure we can all see that.

In all likelihood, this will be Tedy's final year. Does he make those big plays like he used, no he doesn't. But the guy gives you the other intangibles, most noteably his leadership and his integrity which means an incredible amount to the team both on the field and in the locker room.

As far as Big Sey is concerned, you know I have to agree, ever since he got his pay day, he really hasn't been the same player. I know he's still coming back from the injury, but I think he's played 5 games now and I guess I kind of expect to see something out him at this point. I watched him alot last night and to be frank, I really just saw an average D-Lineman out there. I only hope that it is the injury and not a "lack of hunger" that's the cause of this and hopefully he can turn it up a notch by playoff time.

 

[danny88]

I nominate this for STUPIDEST quote of the season. Maybe you determine on-field value by the number of times numbskulls like Kornholio mention his name, but most people don't. This is especially true of opposing coaching staffs that routinely devote multiple blockers to contain him. Oh, and also Seymour's peers, who routinely vote him to the Pro Bowl. On second thought, you're right. That obviously pales in comparison to a nod from John Madden.

Seymour has done nothing this year. The fact the d got worse when he came back says it all.

NSA is asking a valid question , take the homerism elswhere.

 

[ClevTrev]

NSA - Surprised there's no The official Bob Kraft is OVERRATED Thread. Slipping? He clearly was non-supportive of the team last night, staying in his box and not down on the field helping BB wring out a win. C'mon, you know you're thinking it!

 

[Smash-MouthD]

It is not 93's job to get sacks, hurries or fumbles, his primary job in this defense 3-4to take up blockers and keep the linebackers clean. Watch the Steelers play D another 3-4 team it's the linebackers that make the plays not the line, indy plays 4-3 so Freeny is up-field most of the game.
The problem with the Pats deffence right now (IMHO) is that the inside linebackers are getting blocked. Last night Bruschi had a bunch of tackles but they were down feild, Richard is getting doubled so that leaves one lineman and the fullback for the backers to shed and they are not getting it done.
Also they seem to be having trouble wrapping guys up, for what ever reason.
Do you blame Brady when Donte drops a pass, why blame Richard when the backers are missing tackles.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

Dr. Z also said in his column this morning that Seymour got pushed around and dominated last night. He is unbiased.

 

[letekro]

I know I will get blasted for being "negative" again, but such is life. Richard Seymour just may be the most OVERRATED defensive player in football. Hands down. Everyone talks about Freeney on these boards like he is overrated, but at least that guy has an IMPACT on some games!! When was the last time Big Sey did ANYTHING during a game that the announcers or fans noticed???? The guy gets paid TOP DOLLAR to be a dominant defensive lineman. Dominant defenseive linemen get sacks, force fumbles, get hurries on the QB, shut down the run, etc.... I'm sorry, but would our defense miss this guy at all if he went down and Jarvis Green had to fill in?? Would we not miss Asante Samuel more? It's going to be a shame if we lose Samuel over money, when we are paying Big Sey a boat load of money and not getting the big time production that should accompany it. Big Sey might be a great guy and a team captain, but that does not excuse the fact that he is always hurt and does not give pro bowl level production when he is on the field.

You should ask the guys that have to routinely hold him about this.

 

[National Sports Advisors]

It is not 93's job to get sacks, hurries or fumbles, his primary job in this defense 3-4to take up blockers and keep the linebackers clean. Watch the Steelers play D another 3-4 team it's the linebackers that make the plays not the line, indy plays 4-3 so Freeny is up-field most of the game.
The problem with the Pats deffence right now (IMHO) is that the inside linebackers are getting blocked. Last night Bruschi had a bunch of tackles but they were down feild, Richard is getting doubled so that leaves one lineman and the fullback for the backers to shed and they are not getting it done.
Also they seem to be having trouble wrapping guys up, for what ever reason.
Do you blame Brady when Donte drops a pass, why blame Richard when the backers are missing tackles.

Bro, Seymour was getting pushed back all night. Read Dr. Z's column. He gets paid to make plays too, let's be honest. How many tackles for losses has he made this year? How many hurries? How many sacks? How many forced fumbles? Seymour's job is NOT to lead the league in sacks. I understand that. However, he was pushed around last night and hasn't done anything all season. Sorry, but it's true.

 

[mdhprime]

I know I will get blasted for being "negative" again, but such is life. Richard Seymour just may be the most OVERRATED defensive player in football. Hands down. Everyone talks about Freeney on these boards like he is overrated, but at least that guy has an IMPACT on some games!! When was the last time Big Sey did ANYTHING during a game that the announcers or fans noticed???? The guy gets paid TOP DOLLAR to be a dominant defensive lineman. Dominant defenseive linemen get sacks, force fumbles, get hurries on the QB, shut down the run, etc.... I'm sorry, but would our defense miss this guy at all if he went down and Jarvis Green had to fill in?? Would we not miss Asante Samuel more? It's going to be a shame if we lose Samuel over money, when we are paying Big Sey a boat load of money and not getting the big time production that should accompany it. Big Sey might be a great guy and a team captain, but that does not excuse the fact that he is always hurt and does not give pro bowl level production when he is on the field.

Yeah...he is so overrated he gets doubleteamed on EVERY down. If you are going to post, at least try to sound intelligent.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Dr. Z also said in his column this morning that Seymour got pushed around and dominated last night. He is unbiased.

He did, and has been since he's come back. Mediocre might even be a kind word for Big Sey's play. I know he was interiewed a few weeks ago and he said it's going to take time to get his game condition, strength and feet under him after missing all of camp and 7 games. This is true, but I would also expect him to be alot "fresher" than alot of other players at this point due to the time off he's had, he shouldn't and doesn't have alot of the dings and nicks that alot of guys have at this time of year.

I'm kind of done with the excuses for Richard, for the money he's eating up on the cap pie, I really expect and I think the team expects alot more production out of him. Again hopefully we see that soon, because if we don't, something else is up.

Richard's disappointing play is one thing, what about Ben Watson, I know he made that really nice catch over the middle last night, it was a big catch at a big time in the game. But he seems to have major issues with his hands at the worst possible times. Dallas Clark, Gates and Gonzales hold both of the end zone passes, not Ben, he's still in that 2cond tier of tight ends.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Bro, Seymour was getting pushed back all night. Read Dr. Z's column. He gets paid to make plays too, let's be honest. How many tackles for losses has he made this year? How many hurries? How many sacks? How many forced fumbles? Seymour's job is NOT to lead the league in sacks. I understand that. However, he was pushed around last night and hasn't done anything all season. Sorry, but it's true.

NSA, I've asked you three questions in this thread and you have ignored them. When you are saying the Pats D is terrible and not Super Bowl quality, I ask you to identify another team whose D is better than ours and who also has an offiense equal to or better than ours..and you don't.
Then, I ask you to name one Patriot who had an outstaidng game last night...and you dont.
I ask you to name three Pats who are int eh top 2 or 3 at their postion in the league...and you don't.

You claim to be a Pats fan, ahd yet, I haen't seena single post where you aren't tearing them, or one of more of their players, down. And when you get called on it, you repeat your gibbersih, and throw in how you are not a Pats "homer".
Answer the Qs..