***** The official "Danny Amendola sucks!" thread *****

[OhExaulted1]

 

[Brady6]

"He was signed to replace Wes Welker; in 2013, he had 45% of the catches, and 46% of the yardage that Welker produced in 2012. This means Amendola was less than half the player he was signed to replace, even worse if you take Welker’s career earnings with the Patriots and divide them by the 6 seasons he played here he was paid an average of $4.6M per season, Amendola is being paid an average of $5.7M."


Let's start with this premise. Danny Amendola WAS NOT signed to replace Welker. This is like saying that Carl Yazstremski pushed Ted Williams off the Sox. Welker was GONE. They knew it. It's clear in the post-mortem that he and BB did not much like each other and really had come to the point where they didn't think very highly of each other at all. If there was no player named Danny Amendola, Wes Welker would still be a Bronco, in my opinion (judging from everything I have heard since the departure). Even if that's not true, and part of the Welker departure was because McDaniels thought Amendola the better value, hanging that on Amendola is juvenile.

This is a perfect example of what frustrates me about you and other Amendola fans. You have zero accountability and adjust the situation to accommodate for Amendola’s shortcomings. When Amendola was signed 99.9% of people said he was here to replace Wes Welker, then Amendola goes out and fails to produce even 50% of Welker did and you and the other want to have us believe he was not signed for that reason.

So the Patriots, thinking they had two tight end threats and would focus there once more, moved to replace a hole at (slot) receiver. Who was the best choice? Edelman, as it turns out, but who predicted that? The guy couldn't get an offer when he tested the free agent market and signed back with the Pats for peanuts!

Edelman was a special teams player, and depth WR who had never played more than 24% of the snaps in a season. He was also taking UFA visits on a pair of crutches. Edelman made a wise decision returning to the Patriots knowing he would likely have an opportunity to play and signing just a 1-year deal. He increased his value instrumentally doing this. Players need an opportunity to play if they do not have one they do not have value, it is sort of like having a great business but if it does not open the value is not going to be very high.

Amendola had an opportunity to play, in 2012 he was targeted 101 times, in Edelman’s career leading in 2013 he had been targeted a total of 108 times.

So go look at every other WR, slot or otherwise, on the market last year and tell me who the Pats should have signed. Look at the contracts - including the one you claim to be way too high for Amendola - and show me who was available and had better production at the position than DA. Good luck - I already showed you that in another thread. None of the FA receivers performed better last year, dollar for dollar.

Sometimes the right choice is not signing anyone. Amendola being an average WR in an extremely weak free agent class does not make it a good signing. Amendola is a solid player, but he is far from being worth what we paid for him, we paid for a BMW and we got a Nissan.

I also showed you the ratings from FO and other sites - ratings that had Amendola and Edelman side by sde in the football equivalent of WAR. Amendola is the best blocking receiver on the Pats. he had a higher YPC than Edelman. He had half the stats of Edelman on HALF THE SNAPS. I've said it before and I'll say it again here: the two are like mirror images of each other. They run similar routes, have similar hands, get crushed with eerie similarity...they're both injury-unlucky. Edelman broke out of that last year; here's hoping Amendola breaks out of it this year.

They are not mirror images of each other, Edelman is faster, bigger, and more agile, he is significantly better after the catch and in open space. Edelman broke out because his snaps count went from 16%-24% in his career to 86%. Amendola has been playing the majority of his teams snaps since 2009, if he was going to breakout it would have happened by now. Hoping a soon to be 29 year old NFL player who entered the NFL in 2008 is going to breakout is very, very hopeful, I cannot really think of many scenarios when a player has had a chance to play consistently in his career but does not breakout until year 7.

I became a big Danny Amendola fan in week 1 of last season. Not because of stats, but because he gutted it out (almost literally). Because of his willingness to play while clearly in severe pain, the Patriots won that game. They wouldn't have won it without him, and there he was, playing on a torn groin.

I respect that - let's compare it to a certain cornerback with "bruised quads" in the AFCCG championship game. Give me the guy who wants to die with a football in his hands.

This is all true, Amendola played through pain and that was gusty and admiral, but it is not a reason to consider him a better player than he actually is. You are letting your emotions and admiration for Amendola skew your assessment of him as a player.

You're claiming that Edelman is ahead of him in the minicamps so far. Where are you getting that? Everything I'm reading has Edelman, Amendola, and Thompkins taking the first team reps, with Amendola, not Edelman, in the slot. If another receiver steps up, what makes you think BB intends to move Edelman back to the slot and bump Amendola? You have no evidence of any such thing. Reiss says Amendola looks like he did pre-groin injury, with sharp cuts, good reads and clear chemistry with Brady.

You need to read more then, the starting unit has been Edelman and Thompkins, with Amendola playing the same role as he did last year at the end of the seasons as the #3 WR. Yes, the reports indicate that Amendola and Brady had good chemistry; the reports said the same things last year during OTAs. In addition, Edelman has been the most effective WR; every OTA observation has spoken to how well he has played.

What baffles (galls?) me most about your attitude, by the way, is that Edelman was in the exact same position LAST YEAR. He couldn't get an offer on the open market. He had been an injury-plagued underperformer (with nowhere near the stats Amendola had put up - best previous season of 359 yard on 37 receptions). Now after one year, you praise him as the second coming of Welker, but are apparently too myopic to recognize that if Edelman had been the one with the torn groin last year, and Amendola healthy (and given their histories, that is not a stretch to suggest), it's pretty clear that their numbers would have been reversed.

You need to stop doing that, you need to stop comparing a player who played ST, DB, and backup WR for the first 4 years of his career to a player who was his teams #1 or #2 target in just about every season he played. Amendola’s situation is not even close to comparable to Edelman’s last season. Edelman was a player who never had an opportunity to play and when he got one he exceled, Amendola is a player who has been allotted every opportunity to play and is yet to excel (with the exception of a handful of games).

 

[Brady6]

Do you even know what they mean?

That you need better memes...

 

[Brady6]

> using chuck norris meme to complain about meme quality

I know I should be ashamed of myself.

 

[shmessy]

Welker's not the greatest slot receiver in NFL history because he notched more than 100 catches once. He's the greatest slot receiver in NFL history because he gets open fast enough to catch more than 100 catches year after year.

He WAS able to catch more than 100 catches per year.

He's 33 and has never caught more than 73 passes in any year outside of a Patriots uniform.

Once again, the Patriots squeezed the best out of this guy. Definitely one of my favorite players.

 

[Brady6]

He WAS able to catch more than 100 catches per year.

He's 33 and has never caught more than 73 passes in any year outside of a Patriots uniform.

Once again, the Patriots squeezed the best out of this guy. Definitely one of my favorite players.

If you projected, Welker out to the same 174 targets that he received with the Patriots in 2012 he would have had 114 catches and 1226 yards. The drop off was not as significant as the stats would indicate, his opportunity was less in Denver; he was only targeted 110 times.

That said I agree we got the best years out of Welker.

 

[50-yard-line]

This is a perfect example of what frustrates me about you and other Amendola fans. You have zero accountability and adjust the situation to accommodate for Amendola’s shortcomings. When Amendola was signed 99.9% of people said he was here to replace Wes Welker, then Amendola goes out and fails to produce even 50% of Welker did and you and the other want to have us believe he was not signed for that reason.

When Amendola was signed 99.9% of people said he was here to replace Wes Welker

I think I just said that in my post. Is there a point? Zero accountability? WTF are you babbling about?

Oh, I get it, you're claiming that I was glad, maybe? Or that I believed they should replace Welker with him INSTEAD of keeping Welker, maybe. If either of those "nefarious" implications are your point, please produce evidence that I ever said any such thing, or please just quit with the generalizations that don't apply to me. I wanted them to keep Welker. When they couldn't, I was glad they signed the guy who everyone (in the NFL) thought was the best available slot receiver.

then Amendola goes out and fails to produce even 50% of Welker did and you and the other want to have us believe he was not signed for that reason.

Learn to read: I just typed: "So the Patriots, thinking they had two tight end threats and would focus there once more, moved to replace a hole at (slot) receiver. Who was the best choice?"

That implication (that they signed him to replace Welker) escapes you, does it? I said then and still maintain that I thought and they thought Amendola was the best choice for their slot - as it turned out, the best choice last year was the guy they had let test the FA market.

 

[50-yard-line]

If you projected, Welker out to the same 174 targets that he received with the Patriots in 2012 he would have had 114 catches and 1226 yards. The drop off was not as significant as the stats would indicate, his opportunity was less in Denver; he was only targeted 110 times.

That said I agree we got the best years out of Welker.

Absolutely hilarious that you just did that, given the context and the thread.

The irony, it tastes like chicken...

 

[Brady6]

Oh, I get it, you're claiming that I was glad, maybe? Or that I believed they should replace Welker with him INSTEAD of keeping Welker, maybe. If either of those "nefarious" implications are your point, please produce evidence that I ever said any such thing, or please just quit with the generalizations that don't apply to me. I wanted them to keep Welker. When they couldn't, I was glad they signed the guy who everyone (in the NFL) thought was the best available slot receiver.

No, I am claiming that you were of the opinion that Amendola was here to replace Welker when he signed and particularly after the preseason game against the Bucs. Now that a season is behind us, and Amendola failed to produce 50% of what Welker did you are trying to back pedal and claim he was not signed to replace Welker.

Whether or not you wanted to keep Welker is meaningless, I am talking about the events that occurred after Welker left for the Broncos and Amendola signed here. Your position was that Amendola was here to replace Welker, and now you are claiming that he was never signed to replace Welker, that is bull.

Learn to read: I just typed: "So the Patriots, thinking they had two tight end threats and would focus there once more, moved to replace a hole at (slot) receiver.

They focused there more with Welker and he still had great seasons. The slot is always going to be a major part of the Patriots offense, Brady likes to use it. Amendola was signed to fill the hole left by the departed Welker; he produced 46% of what Welker did the year prior and 40% of what Welker did in 2011, even if they were going to focus more on the tight ends they still expect more out of Amendola than he produced. At the end of the day, we did not have those tight ends and Amendola still did not step up so your point really does not make sense. We did not pay Amendola $5.7M because we wanted to use the slot receiver less, that is a ridiculous assertion.

That implication (that they signed him to replace Welker) escapes you, does it? I said then and still maintain that I thought and they thought Amendola was the best choice for their slot - as it turned out, the best choice last year was the guy they had let test the FA market.

I know they thought that, and you know what if not for Edelman breaking out he was the best choice for the slot with Welker off the market. That still does not make him the player you and others want to suggest he is, and does not mean he is capable of doing what Welker and Edelman did. It just means that once the best slot receiver in the NFL signed elsewhere the next best player was Amendola but there was a substantial drop off.

 

[Brady6]

Absolutely hilarious that you just did that, given the context and the thread.

The irony, it tastes like chicken...

Not really because Welker has proven in his career plenty of times he can get open enough to be targeted 170 times, Amendola has not proven that ever. Therefore, when you project Amendola you are projecting him to do something he has never done, when you project Welker you are projecting what he usually does.

 

[50-yard-line]

Ben Volin (he of the Brady-Amendola "trust" issues) yesterday:

"There was a lot of talk about guys “playing faster” now that they’re in their second year with the Patriots — Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Thompkins, Josh Boyce, and Jamie Collins. Amendola and Thompkins, especially, were impressive. Amendola looks to be developing a good rapport with Tom Brady, and Thompkins was sometimes dominant in drills, getting the better of new cornerback Brandon Browner several times."
​

Karen Guregian three days ago:

"Pats wide receiver Danny Amendola, who has looked terrific all offseason, and once again yesterday with the advent of minicamp, simply shrugged.

“It’s not our job to rate ourselves, but I can guarantee we’re going to come out and compete and we’re going to work our butts off to try and get better and try to get on top of our game and try and help our team win games. That’s what’s important to us,” Amendola said. “We’re putting the work in. We’ll see how we stack up when the season comes.”​

It’s pretty obvious in the early going who Brady’s favorite targets are. Julian Edelman and Amendola are the 1-2 punch,"
​

Mike Reiss yesterday:

'With 2013 second-round draft choice Aaron Dobson not participating as he rehabilitates his foot, and veteran Brandon LaFell managing an unspecified injury, it was Thompkins who mostly stepped in alongside Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola in the three-receiver package. He took part in all 13 practices and made some notable catches.'
​

So please, keep dreaming that they'll cut Amendola in favor of Gallon...

 

[Brady6]

@50-yard-line if healthy for 16 games what is the ceiling for what you believe Amendola can produce?

I think 80-85 receptions of 800-850 yards and 3-4 touchdowns is his ceiling.

 

[Brady6]

Ben Volin (he of the Brady-Amendola "trust" issues) yesterday:

"There was a lot of talk about guys “playing faster” now that they’re in their second year with the Patriots — Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Thompkins, Josh Boyce, and Jamie Collins. Amendola and Thompkins, especially, were impressive. Amendola looks to be developing a good rapport with Tom Brady, and Thompkins was sometimes dominant in drills, getting the better of new cornerback Brandon Browner several times."

Karen Guregian three days ago:

"Pats wide receiver Danny Amendola, who has looked terrific all offseason, and once again yesterday with the advent of minicamp, simply shrugged.

“It’s not our job to rate ourselves, but I can guarantee we’re going to come out and compete and we’re going to work our butts off to try and get better and try to get on top of our game and try and help our team win games. That’s what’s important to us,” Amendola said. “We’re putting the work in. We’ll see how we stack up when the season comes.”

It’s pretty obvious in the early going who Brady’s favorite targets are. Julian Edelman and Amendola are the 1-2 punch,"

Mike Reiss yesterday:

'With 2013 second-round draft choice Aaron Dobson not participating as he rehabilitates his foot, and veteran Brandon LaFell managing an unspecified injury, it was Thompkins who mostly stepped in alongside Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola in the three-receiver package. He took part in all 13 practices and made some notable catches.'

So please, keep dreaming that they'll cut Amendola in favor of Gallon...

Yeah and Ras-I Dowling was an offseason award winner last year and received the same praise for his OTA performances. You think because Amendola can make a few catches in no contact situations that it means anything. Amendola does not have problems catching the football, nobody has ever said he does, his problem is he gets open inconsistently. So yeah in flag football I am sure he looked terrific just like he did in last year’s OTAs, but when the pads go on and it gets more physical and players can press him and body him up he will once again struggle to create space consistently. That is why Amendola has these 2-3 great games every season, because he gets a matchup he can exploit, but the other games he as I said struggles to consistently get open.

 

[Ian]

Noticed the early disagreement. @Bruins29@Brady6 Please place eachother on ignore. Clearly there's a disagreement that won't be rectified going back through the posts, so let's agree to disagree and move on.

Otherwise this thread is bordering on being moved out...hurts my head reading a lot of this

 

[Ian]

Yeah and Ras-I Dowling was an offseason award winner last year and received the same praise for his OTA performances. You think because Amendola can make a few catches in no contact situations that it means anything. Amendola does not have problems catching the football, nobody has ever said he does, his problem is he gets open inconsistently. So yeah in flag football I am sure he looked terrific just like he did in last year’s OTAs, but when the pads go on and it gets more physical and players can press him and body him up he will once again struggle to create space consistently. That is why Amendola has these 2-3 great games every season, because he gets a matchup he can exploit, but the other games he as I said struggles to consistently get open.

Not to jump into this argument, but the fact he was battling through the groin injury that clearly bothered him for much of the season I'm sure affected him down the stretch and you could see the difference in his speed/quickness.

Bothers me that you're so hell bent on killing this guy. You need to stop thinking of him as a number one receiver and just accept the fact he's a really good mid to upper tier guy who is going to end up being a difference-maker at some point this season, provided he has a good camp and comes out of the gate better this time around. By your logic discussing his injuries, they should cut Gronkowski based on what he's making vs. his time on the field.

I think you need to tone it down and be a little more objective. Because if he starts playing well and we have to listen to you start rooting for him to fail it's not going to help your cause, and it's just going to continue irritating everyone in here.

 

[50-yard-line]

No, I am claiming that you were of the opinion that Amendola was here to replace Welker when he signed and particularly after the preseason game against the Bucs. Now that a season is behind us, and Amendola failed to produce 50% of what Welker did you are trying to back pedal and claim he was not signed to replace Welker.

Whether or not you wanted to keep Welker is meaningless, I am talking about the events that occurred after Welker left for the Broncos and Amendola signed here. Your position was that Amendola was here to replace Welker, and now you are claiming that he was never signed to replace Welker, that is bull.

Actually, from the beginning, I have consistently said that the only silver lining to Welker leaving was that maybe Brady wouldn't lock in on one receiver as much anymore, which I believed - and still believe - is a distinct disadvantage when we get to the playoffs. I don't want Edelman with 150 targets this year - or Amendola, either. Or anyone else. I prefer when Brady spreads it around - and I said exactly that when Welker left.

And I claimed in my original post, and just pointed out to you again, that HE WAS SIGNED to replace Welker's position. I never said I wanted him to replace Welker in the manner you're describing. Again, put up or please shut up.

They focused there more with Welker and he still had great seasons. The slot is always going to be a major part of the Patriots offense, Brady likes to use it. Amendola was signed to fill the hole left by the departed Welker; he produced 46% of what Welker did the year prior and 40% of what Welker did in 2011, even if they were going to focus more on the tight ends they still expect more out of Amendola than he produced. At the end of the day, we did not have those tight ends and Amendola still did not step up so your point really does not make sense. We did not pay Amendola $5.7M because we wanted to use the slot receiver less, that is a ridiculous assertion.

Look again at the 2013 FA receiver market. Look at what the receivers who signed were getting. Amendola got what receivers got...and for the record, you'll never see me hating on any player because of a contract. It is the duty of the player, unless he's filthy rich like Brady (and even then, who could blame him?) to get as much money as the market will bear.

Here I'll help ya: http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013WR.php

Bowe - 5 years 56 million, 26 guaranteed - 673 yards in 15 games last year.
Cruz - tendered, then extended at 5 years, 43 million, 15+ guaranteed (and complaining about it already) - 998 yards last year in 14 games.
Wallace - 5 years, 60 million, 30 million guaranteed (17.25 against the cap this year) ridiculous contract, ridiculous head case - 930 yards last year in 16 games.
Jennings - 5 years, 48 million, 17+ guaranteed. 804 yard in 14 games.
Denario Alexander - didn't play, probably done.
Hartline - 5 years, 30.775 million, 12.5 guaranteed, resigned with Dolphins

So Amendola with 5 years, 28.5 million, 10 million guaranteed is out of line? Really? Because I'm looking at that list, and maybe, MAYBE, the only one there I'd rather have at the prices they got (particularly adding in their attitude, work ethic, etc.) would be Hartline (and he wasn't an FA). And he's coming off a PCL tear, by the way.

I know they thought that, and you know what if not for Edelman breaking out he was the best choice for the slot with Welker off the market. That still does not make him the player you and others want to suggest he is, and does not mean he is capable of doing what Welker and Edelman did. It just means that once the best slot receiver in the NFL signed elsewhere the next best player was Amendola but there was a substantial drop off.

So you're ready to write him off and others aren't. Bully for you. I've never suggested what he is or will be - I leave that to know-it-alls like you. He's had a good career, other than the injuries, and has given plenty of reason to believe that he can have some very good years here in New England if he can stay healthy. For some reason, that opinion twists your shorts.

Oh, and ps. If he stays healthy and can play 14-16 games and get over 100 targets, I have no reason to believe that Amendola won't get 750-900 yards with the Pats - maybe 70-75 receptions at 11YPC.

 

[Ian]

The other thing to keep in mind last season. Hernandez' nonsense happened in June and completely screwed up their plans heading into the season in the passing game. Part of me wonders if Hernandez was caught in February if they wouldn't have made a stronger consideration in re-signing Welker at that point. But they probably thought they had Gronk & Hernandez (an incredibly talented duo) and felt they could let Welker walk and still be productive with Amendola, Edelman, and the rookies. Instead, Hernandez decided being a professional football player and a father wasn't enough and couldn't stay away from the life he chose, and unfortunately the byproduct is - along with (allegedly) devastating the lives of families who are now mourning the loss of loved ones - the team was left with no time for a contingency in terms of a replacement at that point.

Amendola's not Randy Moss, nor he is Welker. But when healthy he's dynamic enough to do some good things in this offense. To a certain extent, be glad last year happened because he's obviously coming into this season with a big chip on his shoulder. Nothing wrong with a guy having a big reason to be motivated.

 

[Deus Irae]

He WAS able to catch more than 100 catches per year.

He's 33 and has never caught more than 73 passes in any year outside of a Patriots uniform.

Once again, the Patriots squeezed the best out of this guy. Definitely one of my favorite players.

He was ahead of Edelman, and on pace for another 100 +/- catch season last year, before the injuries. But this thread is about the level of suckage of Danny Amendola.

 

[50-yard-line]

The other thing to keep in mind last season. Hernandez' nonsense happened in June and completely screwed up their plans heading into the season in the passing game. Part of me wonders if Hernandez was caught in February if they wouldn't have made a stronger consideration in re-signing Welker at that point. But they probably thought they had Gronk & Hernandez (an incredibly talented duo) and felt they could let Welker walk and still be productive with Amendola, Edelman, and the rookies. Instead, Hernandez decided being a professional football player and a father wasn't enough and couldn't stay away from the life he chose, and unfortunately the byproduct is - along with (allegedly) devastating the lives of families who are now mourning the loss of loved ones - the team was left with no time for a contingency in terms of a replacement at that point.

Amendola's not Randy Moss, nor he is Welker. But when healthy he's dynamic enough to do some good things in this offense. To a certain extent, be glad last year happened because he's obviously coming into this season with a big chip on his shoulder. Nothing wrong with a guy having a big reason to be motivated.

If they had known about Hernandez, they would have probably offered Sanders something the Steelers couldn't match, at least; possibly would have kept Lloyd around if that was doable; would certainly have kept Welker - AND might have gone for Amendola or Jennings as well. figuring on a 3WR set.

 

[Brady6]

Not to jump into this argument, but the fact he was battling through the groin injury that clearly bothered him for much of the season I'm sure affected him down the stretch and you could see the difference in his speed/quickness.

Bothers me that you're so hell bent on killing this guy. You need to stop thinking of him as a number one receiver and just accept the fact he's a really good mid to upper tier guy who is going to end up being a difference-maker at some point this season, provided he has a good camp and comes out of the gate better this time around. By your logic discussing his injuries, they should cut Gronkowski based on what he's making vs. his time on the field.

I think you need to tone it down and be a little more objective. Because if he starts playing well and we have to listen to you start rooting for him to fail it's not going to help your cause, and it's just going to continue irritating everyone in here.

I am not trying to kill Amendola. I am trying to outline what I think are realistic expectation for him, and those expectations are viewed as slighting Amendola. I do not doubt that the groin influenced his play, but I do not think it was the difference between being a 54 catch and 633 yard WR, and a 100+ catch and 1000+ yard WR. As I said in an earlier post, I feel Amendola can produce around 80-85 catches and 800-850 yards if healthy for a full season.

As far as irritating people, it is your board so I respect what you want from me as a member and will accommodate whatever you request of me but I think my being outspoken (admittedly excessively) at times is confused with killing Amendola. My message has been consistent throughout every thread and Amendola discussion, I think he is a solid slot WR who if was making $2.5-$3M a year I would be ecstatic to have. At $5.7M APY he is not in my wheelhouse, that said I understand the signing at the time Amendola was the best option to replace Welker and we had to pay what the market justified. I also want to reiterate my prior statement that at the start of 2013 Amendola was superior player to Edelman, but having reps gave Edelman what he needed to develop into one of the better slot receivers in the NFL. I am not suggesting that we should have went with Edelman the entire time and I knew it, at the time Amendola was signed it was a good decision. Past this season I do not think it makes sense to retain him, because even if he is better than Edelman he is not that much better to justify paying him $1M+ more a season than we can pay Edelman.

As far as if Amendola doing well I will tell you right now I hope he does, I would never root against a Patriots player. I will gladly eat my crow, but just the same I would never be so irrational that I would begin rooting for Amendola as if I was a huge fan of him after spending a solid 6-8 months saying otherwise. If Amendola goes out and had a great season I will be wrong, and I will own that.