***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

[patsinthesnow]

@PatriotsHaven: #Patriots doing 7-on-7 w/ perceived "first team". Chung lined up at safety next to McCourty... Arrington w/ a nice pass breakup on Amendola

 

[Kontradiction]

@PatriotsHaven: #Patriots doing 7-on-7 w/ perceived "first team". Chung lined up at safety next to McCourty... Arrington w/ a nice pass breakup on Amendola

I'm assuming this is just experimental and Patrick "Too Late" Chung is not on the first team when the dust settles.

 

[AzorianPats]

Just to follow up on this, in late 2013, opposing quarterbacks were 21/39 199 yards and a TD when Hightower was in coverage. In fairness, a good portion of that had to do with the fact that he was playing in Mayo's position. But, as a LB, whether it's on the strong side or the weak side, he's going to be asked to cover. Again, that's a win for the offense. As a run-stuffing Sam LB, Hightower excels. That's what his skill set is. He's also capable of driving his man into the backfield on a bull rush and getting to the quarterback on a blitz. Again, his skill set allows him to excel there. His skill set does not include coverage, unfortunately. Whether it's zone or man, he's just not who you would want covering a TE and definitely not the guy you would want covering a RB. His coverage deficiencies are among the main reasons why offenses have been able to complete passes between the numbers against us with alarming regularity since the beginning of the 2012 season. I think the Pats should experiment with him more as a DE. He can play LB in a pinch in case of injuries, but I think he'd be more effective with his hand in the dirt.

Kontra, I agree with the fact coverage is not his greatest strength. I also agree I'd rather see Collins, Mayo or Anderson in their when we go nickel. We do have better options, and Hightower himself has already said he'd rather be rushing the QB than covering. I just don't think he's atrocious at it either that's all.

When Mayo went down last year, he struggled, especially vs the Jets and Broncos, but as the year went on he got better.

He's nowhere near the cover LB Collins or even Mayo is, but he's still much better at it than Spikes.

 

[Kontradiction]

Kontra, I agree with the fact coverage is not his greatest strength. I also agree I'd rather see Collins, Mayo or Anderson in their when we go nickel. We do have better options, and Hightower himself has already said he'd rather be rushing the QB than covering. I just don't think he's atrocious at it either that's all.

When Mayo went down last year, he struggled, especially vs the Jets and Broncos, but as the year went on he got better.

He's nowhere near the cover LB Collins or even Mayo is, but he's still much better at it than Spikes.

Well, he got benched against the Broncos because he was so bad in coverage. He got benched in favor of Dane Fletcher, who then went on to pretty thoroughly outplay him. Just out of curiosity, what games do you think Hightower got better in as the season went on?

 

[Rob0729]

Looks like WR Greg Orton has a significant leg injury. He is carted off the field. He was a long, long, long shot to make the team, but I hate to see his Patriots career ending this way.

 

[AzorianPats]

Well, he got benched against the Broncos because he was so bad in coverage. He got benched in favor of Dane Fletcher, who then went on to pretty thoroughly outplay him. Just out of curiosity, what games do you think Hightower got better in as the season went on?

@Baltimore, Indy playoff game.

If I remember correctly, Collins and Hightower were the LB's getting the bulk of playing time during the playoffs.

 

[AzorianPats]

I do agree, thst Broncos Sunday night game did change when Hightower got benched for Fletcher. But I wouldn't say Fletcher outplayed Hightower the rest of the year.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm assuming this is just experimental and Patrick "Too Late" Chung is not on the first team when the dust settles.

Well the Mario Manningham catch still stings...I think that was the last postive play Manningham made in the NFL up to this point no thanks to Chung.

 

[Ring 6]

Just to follow up on this, in late 2013, opposing quarterbacks were 21/39 199 yards and a TD when Hightower was in coverage. In fairness, a good portion of that had to do with the fact that he was playing in Mayo's position. But, as a LB, whether it's on the strong side or the weak side, he's going to be asked to cover. Again, that's a win for the offense.

21/39 53.8% for 199, 5.10 ypa is NOT a win for the offense by any means.
I don't know what 'in late 2013 means' but if you are saying only 21 passes were completed to Hightowers man for 199 yards over the majority of the season, then this says the least of the worries the defense has last year was teams completing passes vs Hightower. "Automatic win for the offense" would imply to me something more than about 15 yards a game.

 

[Rob0729]

I know I am in the minority, but I still think Chung can be effective in a limited role. He might be mostly be a run down guy. He is a good special teamer (as long as he isn't the guy calling punt fakes). So the Pats can carry him even if he is only on the field 15-20 plays at most a game.

 

[PatsFan2]

Kontra, I agree with the fact coverage is not his greatest strength. I also agree I'd rather see Collins, Mayo or Anderson in their when we go nickel. We do have better options, and Hightower himself has already said he'd rather be rushing the QB than covering. I just don't think he's atrocious at it either that's all.

When Mayo went down last year, he struggled, especially vs the Jets and Broncos, but as the year went on he got better.

He's nowhere near the cover LB Collins or even Mayo is, but he's still much better at it than Spikes.

I am skeptical if Hightower is even going to be good at Rushing the passer...I think we much better options than him in that role.

 

[PatsFan2]

I know I am in the minority, but I still think Chung can be effective in a limited role. He might be mostly be a run down guy. He is a good special teamer (as long as he isn't the guy calling punt fakes). So the Pats can carry him even if he is only on the field 15-20 plays at most a game.

You are not in the minority Rob...Chung is limited player period!

 

[Kontradiction]

@Baltimore, Indy playoff game.

If I remember correctly, Collins and Hightower were the LB's getting the bulk of playing time during the playoffs.

Baltimore was totally inept, offensively, in that game. The defense looked like the '85 Bears. Fun game to watch, though. As for the Indy playoff game, outside of one play, I think you might be overrating him a bit. But to each his own...

I do agree, thst Broncos Sunday night game did change when Hightower got benched for Fletcher. But I wouldn't say Fletcher outplayed Hightower the rest of the year.

I was talking about that game. Not the rest of the year. Fletcher looked like the much more competent LB and Hightower looked lost. Again, he is what he is. He's excellent in coming up and taking on the run and he's good when blitzing. His weaknesses are his ability to shed blocks (something that Wilfork coming back should help him with) when OL get to the second level and coverage. Why anybody would try to argue that he's competent in coverage is honestly beyond me.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am skeptical if Hightower is even going to be good at Rushing the passer...I think we much better options than him in that role.

I think he'd be just fine in rushing the passer. In his time at Alabama (I watch most of their games since I'm in the viewing region) and here, it's plainly obvious that he's more comfortable in that downhill type of role. When he has to move laterally, shed blocks, and cover TE's, he's not a natural at all. He's the perfect LB if you're playing in the year 2003. He's extremely limited if you're playing in the year 2014. A move to DE, at least IMO, would be perfect for him and, as mentioned before, he can still play LB in the event of a horrific rash of injuries.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Baltimore was totally inept, offensively, in that game. The defense looked like the '85 Bears. Fun game to watch, though. As for the Indy playoff game, outside of one play, I think you might be overrating him a bit. But to each his own...



I was talking about that game. Not the rest of the year. Fletcher looked like the much more competent LB and Hightower looked lost. Again, he is what he is. He's excellent in coming up and taking on the run and he's good when blitzing. His weaknesses are his ability to shed blocks (something that Wilfork coming back should help him with) when OL get to the second level and coverage. Why anybody would try to argue that he's competent in coverage is honestly beyond me.

Hightower needs to lose some weight before he can improve in coversge

 

[Kontradiction]

Hightower needs to lose some weight before he can improve in coversge

I'm not even sure that will help a whole lot. He just doesn't look like a natural there. It's expected to look out of place when in coverage when you're a rookie in a tough defense with a lot being thrown at you. Thing is, he still hasn't really even improved in that area. Some of it has to do with his size, some of it has to do with natural ability. Whatever the case, his skill set does not translate to covering TE's. He's been a major reason for the defense's trouble covering TE's (short of the game plan calling for eliminating them altogether ala Talib on Graham) since 2012. Notably, Belichick has begun targetting more athletic LB's since that draft in Collins and Anderson. That's not a coincidence either. I guarantee you that if Hightower continues to line up at LB throughout this season, he will not be re-signed.

 

[Ring 6]

@Baltimore, Indy playoff game.

If I remember correctly, Collins and Hightower were the LB's getting the bulk of playing time during the playoffs.

Hightower was a BEAST in the Colts game. I was there, and everyone in our section kept pointing out how Hightower was all over the field.

 

[Kontradiction]

Ahh... the dog days of summer...

Mike Reiss‏@MikeReiss24m
Competition level rising at Pats camp: After one play in 7-on-7 drills, WR Julian Edelman & CB Kyle Arrington got into minor shoving match.

And...

Mike Reiss‏@MikeReiss13 mins
Similar to Thursday, Rob Gronkowski works after practice w/ Tom Brady. Gronkowski again did individual drills in practice, not team drills.

 

[mgteich]

I know I am in the minority, but I still think Chung can be effective in a limited role. He might be mostly be a run down guy. He is a good special teamer (as long as he isn't the guy calling punt fakes). So the Pats can carry him even if he is only on the field 15-20 plays at most a game.

I don't see why Chung doesn't have a reasonable chance at one of the 2-3 backup safety roster spots.

There are six players competing for the 2-3 backup safety positions. All the vets are solid special teamers: Wilson, Chung, Ebner. Other competitors for the spots include Thomas, Swanson and Davis.

 

[patchick]

Mike Reiss‏@MikeReiss24m
Competition level rising at Pats camp: After one play in 7-on-7 drills, WR Julian Edelman & CB Kyle Arrington got into minor shoving match.

Edelman has a way of raising tempers. He's a wee bit intense.