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The Official 2011 Sox rant thread:


I'm going to purposely ignore the little tacks about my personality and level of involvement given I've been the one who's gone at great lengths to source factual data out of the two of us, so that can be a bygone.

Of course they could better purchase or identify pitchers they target. That's part of the point I've alluding to in saying it isn't as simple as "spend more."
I agree that spending "better" is the prudent point, however my issue with the spending was in regards to the bull pen more specifically. I don't mind conceding that spending wisely is better than spending more.

do I think they're worse than most other teams, though? No. It's hard to evaluate pitching.
The statistics seem to indicate that either the evaluation of pitching is poor or the performance is poor. I think it's a combination of both.

insano and I talked about Shields as a possibility down the road -- but he was horrible last year and mediocre the year before. Was this year predictable as a great season?
I followed that and enjoyed the discussion.

Jered Weaver has been steadily getting better and is havin a very good year. Scott Kazmir for a while looked to be part of one of the worst trades ever; now he migt be out of baseball. jake Peavy's done nothing since the ChiSox got him. Johan Santana has been a disappointment for the Mets, though still pitching well when healthy (an issue, obviously). Yanks got AJ Burnett and Sabathia in the same offseason -- Sabathia has been very good, Burnett a bust.
No issue with any of these comments.

Do I think they've been overspending on non-pitchers relative to pitchers? Not really. I'm glad they traded for and signed Gonzalez. I'm glad they signed Crawford. If Crawford came at the expense of Cliff Lee, I'd ABSOLUTELY be unhappy with the decision -- and not just because of the years each has had. But from what I've read Lee wasn't coming to Boston or NY.
I agree RE: Gonzalez and I'm undecided on Crawford atm. I agree that Lee seemed like he was going to Philly and only Philly. The point is how do we improve the rotation and pen to the point where it becomes a strength and not a liability.
 
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i think more people need to treat a message board like having a conversation at a bar with a friend instead of some kind of pissing contest of who is right or wrong. this isn't directed to anyone in particular its just a thought. if this was a bar there would be a lot of broken sh!t all over the place and a lot of blood and teeth on the floor.
 
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i think more people need to treat a message board like having a conversation at a bar with a friend instead of some kind of pissing contest of who is right or wrong. this isn't directed to anyone in particular its just a thought.
I don't necessarily think I'm right insano.. as evidenced by my retraction in regards to the Red Sox pitching that you identified quite some time ago.

As you're aware, things change in the course of a season. The problem lies in history repeating. I'm not ungrateful as the Red Sox are a great team, I'm more acknowledging that given the vast resources that the Red Sox have, they could be a better team.

I also acknowledge that chico has a great degree of sporting knowledge.
 
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im not directing my previous post at you or anybody else. its just something i always thought message boards should be. at least thats the way i look at it. we all love the same team. sometimes people post stuff when they are frustrated after a loss. i know i do.
 
im not directing my previous post at you or anybody else. its just something i always thought message boards should be. at least thats the way i look at it. we all love the same team. sometimes people post stuff when they are frustrated after a loss. i know i do.
I generally agree with this. I guess text may come through in a different context where tone and body language isn't present.

I'll never be annoyed by fellow Boston fans.. more challenge points of view in our support of our teams because that's what the discussions are about.. our teams. Hell, I've even warmed to you.. you annoying prat ;).

We all want to see them win.. badly. I'm certain that's universal.
 
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I'm going to purposely ignore the little tacks about my personality and level of involvement given I've been the one who's gone at great lengths to source factual data out of the two of us, so that can be a bygone.....

The posts in this thread show otherwise. But if you drop the ad hominems, I will as well.


...I agree that spending "better" is the prudent point, however my issue with the spending was in regards to the bull pen more specifically. I don't mind conceding that spending wisely is better than spending more.....

We agree on spending, then. (re. the bullpen, I still doubt mere spending is the problem. On paper coming into this year, the Sox pen could have been very good. Turns out, it hasn't been. The Yanks spent a ton on Soriano, and he has been bad. I bet if we look at the spending data by team, we'd see little correlation b/t spending and performance in the pen, either.)


...The statistics seem to indicate that either the evaluation of pitching is poor or the performance is poor. I think it's a combination of both.

I followed that and enjoyed the discussion.

No issue with any of these comments.


I agree RE: Gonzalez and I'm undecided on Crawford atm. I agree that Lee seemed like he was going to Philly and only Philly. The point is how do we improve the rotation and pen to the point where it becomes a strength and not a liability.

So it sounds like we actually agree for the most part.

How do we improve the pitching to the point where it becomes a strength?

Honestly, I don't know if our scouts or pitching coach are bad. My guess is they're roughly similar to most teams, but that's just a guess.

Aside from that, though, if the Sox keep focused on improving the team, these should become strengths.

I think Buchholz's injury was extremely detrimental to the team. Not only does it take away our #3 (who has potential to be more than a #3), it puts more pressure on the entire staff, especially the pen.

This offseason, I think the Sox should make Sabathia a legitimate offer, though it will get beat by the Yanks, and probably go after CJ wilson as well.

Our other holes are RF and SS. I don't think there are any good RFs on the FA market, but hopefully Kalish next year will resume his progress after a waste of a season due to injuries. At SS I don't think Reyes is a good answer for a variety of reasons (though I'd LOVE the speed of him, Crawford and Ellsbury in the lineup :) ).

So that would mean the only activity for the Sox in the FA market is pitching, both starting and the pen.

I'm always amused by people who say we have enough pitching at the start of the year. There's a good chance I had that kind of exchange here back in march or April. You don't rely on Wake to be part of the rotation. At this point you don't rely on Matsuzaka, and lackey is your 5. That leaves a hole for at least one starter b/t Lester, Beckett, Buchholz and Lackey. I know we won't get Sabathia. CJ wilson will be overpriced, but my pov is if you think he's the right guy on the field, you get him. (Granted, it's not my $, and I also don't have any budgeting responsibilities for the team.)
 
Six game lead in early September. The Red Sox might be struggling, but they're not the Mets.
do you still feel that way after watching them get swept in tampa?
 
It's disturbing to say this, but the Red Sox are on the verge of being irrelevant to a segment of the fanbase. I went to a local sports bar with 4 TVs to watch their game today and not one had the game on. This is a place with a pretty knowledgeable customer group and no one even asked about the game. 3 TVs had NFL on and the other had a replay of an NCAA game from yesterday. I was shocked. No one commented on the Red Sox at all.
 
do you still feel that way after watching them get swept in tampa?

Yep, and I'm not even a Sox fan. Tampa is actually a halfway decent team, and if you haven't noticed, the Yankees are also losing a lot of games.

I also seem to remember all the Sox fans bailing on the team after the 0-fer start.
 
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Yep, and I'm not even a Sox fan. Tampa is actually a halfway decent team, and if you haven't noticed, the Yankees are also losing a lot of games.

I also seem to remember all the Sox fans bailing on the team after the 0-fer start.

tampa is a very good team not decent. and thats more of a reason to be nervous. but your not a sox fan so why be nervous no matter what the situation is. i dont remember anybody nevermind everybody[all your words] bailing on the team. not on this board.
 
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bumppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
 
Pitching... hmmm. Finally get a decent start from Lackey and Bard implodes again.
 
its like a ghost town in here. wheres keyser sozo?
 
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its like a ghost town in here. wheres keyser sozo?
Probably because football is back and the Red Sox are absolutely stinking up the joint at present. 170 million spending on a team bookending the season with a 2-10 start, in a 4-12 slump from their last 16. They haven't even provided the fans with a yelp to hang their hats on.
 
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Probably because football is back and the Red Sox are absolutely stinking up the joint at present. 170 million spending on a team bookending the season with a 2-10 start, in a 4-12 slump from their last 16. They haven't even provided the fans with a yelp to hang their hats on.
even if they make the playoffs its not like they are going anywhere anyway. they are embarrassing themselves and there fans. i like your sig btw.
 
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The fact that we had Weiland starting, in place of Miller, says it all.

Next 2 games are critical, obviusly -- Beckett tomorrow (v Shields), Lester Saturday.

What really sucks about the tailspin -- other than the obvious w/regard to the standings -- is that, even if they right the ship, they can't rest people. And this is a banged up team, to say the least.
 
The fact that we had Weiland starting, in place of Miller, says it all.

Next 2 games are critical, obviusly -- Beckett tomorrow (v Shields), Lester Saturday.

What really sucks about the tailspin -- other than the obvious w/regard to the standings -- is that, even if they right the ship, they can't rest people. And this is a banged up team, to say the least.
they are always banged up. they are banged up when they get out of bed in the mourning. they are banged up in the off season ect ect. what they are is a soft underachieving baseball team. they have no excuses.
 
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they are always banged up. they are banged up when they get out of bed in the mourning. they are banged up in the off season ect ect. what they are is a soft underachieving baseball team. they have no excuses.

like Ellsbury was "soft" last year, I suppose?

wonder if you were one of the people who wanted him gone then...
 
at some point you cant use injuries as a excuse. they are supposed to be a dream team. they seemed to think they were guaranteed a playoff spot. a guy gets a hang nail and francona sits him. to much sitting not enough playing.
 
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