The Offense Is fine with one weakness

[mgteich]

The offense is getting better each week. We are strong at QB, TE, RB and OL. We are OK at WR. After all, we can play with two wide receivers, two TE's and a RB. It is our most effective set (especially when used with a no-huddle). There are no real weaknesses. IMHO, this offense is better than any we've ever had. Caldwell and Watson are the go-to guys for Brady. Brown would be, but he has to play defense. Graham being healthy means much better protection for Brady. We don't seem to have depp threat at the moment, but that will come. The talent is there.

The only weakness is at OC. The triple reverse was one of the worst calls I have ever seen in the NFL. The game plan and playcalling in the Indy game were the worst I've seen in a very long time.

And BTW, I am not one to trash any of the coaches. I strongly supported Charlie, and still do. I just wish that bb would have given Tom a bit more support than an inexperienced 29 year old as an OC. He would done better giving the job to his son, or to Charlie's son.

I understand that Charlie and Mangini had to go. We replaced Mangini, and haven't noticed much of a reduction in effectiveness (IMHO). The schemes are different. Hoever, we are 2nd in the league in point allowed and best in the red zone. And I believe we are among the BEST against the run, for the first time under bb.

On the other hand, our offense is most effective when we go into the no-huddle and Tom is in charge; or rather our offense is best when Josh has the least influence.

 

[Remix 6]

i dont think we get big enough holes for Maroney

could be playcalling/OL play

 

[BelichickFan]

You guys insist on giving NEM material don't you ?

Actually I disagree. I'm fine with McDaniels. He's a little daring for me, there's times I want to run the clock down more that he's throwing but that's a minor thing.

The one weakness is we need another #2 WR. Caldwell has filled the Givens hole. Earlier in the year it looked like Gabriel would give us a second #2 quality WR, as Branch had. However, now we simply don't have that player. Once we do, if we ever get there, we should be set on offense the way the TE and RB are playing.

 

[njpatsfan]

McDaniels is fine.

nem would say the same thing with or without material. He said the exact same insane things about Weiss.

350 yards against the best D in football, and you want to fire the OC over ONE FRICKEN PLAY.

What kind of fans are we ? Yankees fans ?

Christ.

R

 

[shakadave]

Offense has a second weakness!

There is another glaring weakness: we need to hang on to the freaking ball. Jeezus H Jeezus! Corey, all that matters is that you not fumble on this play. Oops, fumble! Watson, hang on tight --- oops, fumble. Oh it's OK, Reche recovered it. Oops, Reche fumbled. All this after baby Maroney has candy taken from him in the 1st quarter.

To play like that and win, we must surely be the most talented team in the NFL.

 

[BelichickFan]

Well we scored 17 points and were in scoring range 3 more times (at least) that we blew due to stupid turnovers. I guess they were McDaniels' fault. Wait, don't call that play, it'll be completed but we'll fumble so call something else

 

[MrClutch]

I think those turnovers are the weakness in our offense. Turnovers happen but I hate it when it's those tipped balls that leave the ball hanging in the air. That ball that flew out of Watson's hands in to and then out of Caldwells was totally wtf.....

 

[BelichickFan]

Points: Patriots got 17, NFL averages (against Bears) 12.0
Yards : Patriots got 354, NFL averages (against Bears) 252
Yards per pass : Patriots had 8.2, NFL averages (against Bears) 5.34

Yeah, that really sucks.

 

[BelichickFan]

I think those turnovers are the weakness in our offense. Turnovers happen but I hate it when it's those tipped balls that leave the ball hanging in the air. That ball that flew out of Watson's hands in to and then out of Caldwells was totally wtf.....

Had to be McDaniels' fault . . .

 

[PatsFan-NH]

Does anyone know what Doug Gabriel did or didn't do to become the invisible man ?

On Patriot's Game Day, Steve DeOssie came out and said he was in the dog house, so its no secret, but he didn't give any details.

It can't be that last fumble only. So is he unable to do what they want, or does he have bad Raider habits and attitudes off the field that make him a problem for the team ?

I wish they would get him on the field, cause we need all the help we can get.

I don't think the offense is fine, and its not just about play calling, its about execution. There are still too many 3 and outs and balls that are thrown to nobody, and behind or too low. We won by luck against the Bears. The luck of Assante making those picks, cause he doesn't always.

We can dominate bad or mediocre teams, but with good teams we are still over matched. Not because they have better people, or even plans, but because our execution is erratic. I don't care why the offense is still not clicking on all cylinders, after Thanksgiving they have run out of time.


BB needs to lock TB and the receivers into the practice bubble and not let them out until they have their timing/route issues solved.

 

[unoriginal]

Here, McDaniels got the first down with a good PASSING PLAY...so what does McDainels do with what he has learned.... here comes the next plays on 1st and 2nd downs

He finally passes on 2nd down, but with only needing 7, he goes deep ON A SIDELINE FLY PATTERN, INSTEAD OF A DEEP POST OR A CROSSING, OR EVEN A QUICK INSIDE SLANT, ALL OF WHICH ARE TOUGHER TO DEFEND

Jackson's fade route was not a bad call, because it was designed to take advantage of Tillman's one-on-one coverage and to stay away from Tillman's help, which was deep middle of the field.

so, as we see, the 1st and 2nd down dumbass play calls gave the control to the Chicago defense, and they forced another error, set uyp by McDaniels ignorant play calling on 1st and 2nd downs.

Any play calls that result in a 3rd and 3 are fine by me. That is a very managable down and distance.

This comment is just in general: the Patriots have to run sometime. It's like sleeping. If it makes you feel better, just think of handoffs as really quick shovel passes.

 

[Rob0729]

This seems like 2002 all over again. Much of what people are complaining about McDaniels are the same things people complain about Weis - too predictable play calling, giving up on the run too easily, over-reliance of stupid play calling.

Probably the only reason we didn't score 20-30 points today were turnovers because players didn't protect the ball. Watson coughed up the ball twice inside the red zone and one of those times was on the one yard line. That isn't McDaniels fault.

McDaniels was far from perfect today or this season. The double reverse was a dumb idea in hindsight, but we don't know if they saw something they thought they could exploit. He doesn't alway make the best play calls, but every team has their share of three and outs. But going into today, the Pats were fourth in total first downs, seventh in 3rd down conversion percentage, ninth in points, and the seventh ranked offense. Not the best stats, but not horrid at all.

I think people are expecting a little too much. We have an above average offense and a top offense in certain areas. This isn't the 2004 offense, but few teams every year achieve what they did in a season. McDaniels isn't Weis, but Weis was considered far from a genius in the 2002 season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Isn't it bad enough that NEM spews this garbage every second of every day? Do people who should know better have to say the same crap? Today was the first game of the season that the Chicago Bears allowed any offense to gain 300 yards against them, and it was the "incompetent" McDaniels who guided the team that did that.

McDaniels:

1.) did not drop the ball that hit Chad Jackson right in the hands
2.) did not play hot potato and fumble the ball twice on the same play
3.) did not overthrow Troy Brown over the middle so that it could be picked off
4.) did not fumble it when it was handed off to either Dillon or the rookie
5.) did not call plays designed to have Benjamin Watson display Mark Blount hands

6.) did call the plays that had the Patriots moving up and down the field
7.) did call the plays that got the Patriots a victory against the #1 defense in the NFL

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A lot of those 3 and outs WERE, in factk, caused by some horrible and pitiful play calling, particularly in the 3rd quarter when McDaniels was given four opportunities to put the game out of reach.

In the third quarter, McDaniels called running plays on almost every 1st and 2nd down.....thereby setting up third downs in which the Bears defense controlled the flow and that is what would cause poor execution on the part of the Patriots, in many instances.

Here's some of McDaniels inane play calling in the third quarter alone...


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1-10-NE20 (13:12) C.Dillon right tackle to NE 20 for no gain (L.Briggs, A.Ogunleye).
..
2-10-NE20 (12:37) (Shotgun) C.Dillon up the middle to NE 20 for no gain (C.Harris).

3-10-NE20 (12:02) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to K.Faulk to NE 24 for 4 yards (N.Vasher).

4-6-NE24 (11:24) K.Walter punts 32 yards to CHI 44, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by D.Hester.

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New England Patriots at 10:50
1-10-NE32 (10:50) H.Evans up the middle to NE 32 for no gain (Ta.Johnson, T.Harris).

2-10-NE32 (10:11) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to L.Maroney to CHI 48 for 20 yards (C.Tillman, L.Briggs).

(Here, McDaniels got the first down with a good PASSING PLAY...so what does McDainels do with what he has learned.... here comes the next plays on 1st and 2nd downs}

1-10-CHI48 (9:31) L.Maroney left tackle to CHI 45 for 3 yards (B.Urlacher, L.Briggs).

2-7-CHI45 (8:55) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to C.Jackson (C.Tillman). ..

(He finally passes on 2nd down, but with only needing 7, he goes deep ON A SIDELINE FLY PATTERN, INSTEAD OF A DEEP POST OR A CROSSING, OR EVEN A QUICK INSIDE SLANT, ALL OF WHICH ARE TOUGHER TO DEFEND)..


3-7-CHI45 (8:49) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep middle to B.Watson to CHI 22 for 23 yards (L.Briggs). FUMBLES (L.Briggs), recovered by NE-R.Caldwell at CHI 21. R.Caldwell to CHI 13 for 8 yards (D.Manning). FUMBLES (D.Manning), RECOVERED by CHI-D.Manning at CHI 13. D.Manning to CHI 13 for no gain (T.Brown).
PENALTY on CHI-C.Tillman, Unnecessary Roughness, 6 yards, enforced at CHI 13.



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1-10-NE34 (2:28) C.Dillon right guard to NE 38 for 4 yards (C.Harris, A.Boone).

2-6-NE38 (1:53) C.Dillon left tackle to NE 41 for 3 yards (C.Harris, I.Idonije).

3-3-NE41 (1:20) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle intended for T.Brown INTERCEPTED by C.Tillman [Ta.Johnson] at CHI 44. C.Tillman to CHI 47 for 3 yards (D.Gabriel).

(so, as we see, the 1st and 2nd down dumbass play calls gave the control to the Chicago defense, and they forced another error, set uyp by McDaniels ignorant play calling on 1st and 2nd downs.)

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And, this is just a small segment of the same crap McDaniels has called for most of the season. .

This team has the tools, they have the receivers, they have the offensive line, and they certainly have the quarterback, as long as he isnt put into desperate situations with asinine play calling giving control of the next play to the opposing defense.

Too many times this season Brady has been put into desperate third down situations in which he has been set up for failure by McDaniels...because when you constantly call asinine plays on 1st and 2nd downs, third down is sure to be a major disaster...most of the time.

Oh my, I'm in a state of shock, NEM actually sharpened his crayon and made some notes! Okay, he complains about play calls that are runs and passes down the sideline - wait, isn't that the same complaint he makes when he doesn't sharpen his crayon! Of course we have plays and the result in isolation, were there any issues with blocking? Did any defender make a spectacular play? We do know that Tillman got away with face guarding Jackson, though CJ has to learn to fight through that and make the catch on a catchable ball. How did the defense line up? Was that a factor? You surprise me NEM, a step in the right direction, I applaud you and recommend you stick with that doctor (keep up the good job on taking those meds).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I guess what most of us fail to appreciate is in NEM's offensive schemes defenses don't really exist pre snap and are so befuddled by his foresight in hindsight system post snap that they all just fall down and weep as every play succeeds and we are left to ponder why they even bothered to show up for these games in the face of such genius. Oh, and NEM's players never fail to execute because that simply is not an option his system will tolerate.

BTW is mg beginning to scare anyone else? I though when I opened this thread the weakness might be that we still can't execute consistently.

 

[DarrylS]

I will get on my bandwagon again, McDaniels does not arbitrarily draw up a game plan in a vacuum. He does it with all of his position coaches and BB, it is reviewed by #12 before they present it to the team.

To blame McDaniels for anything, begs the issue he does not execute the plays, he did not cause 5 turnovers. If Jackson had caught both those balls, would 31-13 have been enough for all the naysayers??

BB is too much of a control freak to let anything happen without his input and stamp of approval. If he does not like the way the game is going, he can change it. Only on this board, does an incredible win against a very physical team draw criticism about the play calling.

 

[Jimke]

The one glaring weakness the Patriots have on offense is obviously the

turnovers. Unfortunately, they are appearing with great regularity. They

are the reason that the Pats have lost three games. Maybe, this is

the reason that we were able to obtain Reche Caldwell and Doug Gabriel

from their respective teams. Even though the Pats got away with them

in the Bear's game, they may doom their chances of going deep into

the playoffs.

 

[cstjohn17]

Initially I was not a big fan of the OC but think that he and the offense are starting to grow as a unit. It is easy to second guess every specific play but the game plans are built for 60 minutes not just a series. The balance yesterday 34 run versus 33 pass is what allowed the success of the passing game in the 4th quarter. Very similar to how the Patriots operated in 2003 & 2004 where most game were close until the 4th quarter at which point they pulled away.

I think McDaniels should be given a lot credit because the WRs are still flawed. This is the weakness in my opinion, Caldwell has been solid but overall teams do not respect or fear the Pats WRs. Against the Bears they threw for 270 yards with only 4 catches from WRs. That is incredible.

The good news is that they have a pretty easy schedule and are moving in the right direction. If production from WRs begins to emerge this will be an excellent offense in the playoffs.

 

[mgteich]

To be clear, I did not even mention the playcalling in the Chicago game, except for the reverse, which was pure sandlot. The two tips kept Chicago in the game; otherwise the game was the expected blowout against the best in the NFC.

I mentioned the Indy game where I believe the game plan was terrrible. You all point to offensive stats to show how great Josh is. I have often pointed to those stats to indicate how good the offense is. My point was, and is, that bb good have given Brady more coaching help at OC, as he did for the defense.

To put in another way, how would you rate Pees among the NFL's DC's? How would you rate his 2006 performance? Now how would you rate Josh?

Personally, I would rate Pees rather highly, especially against Chicago.

I would rate Josh rather low, especially against Indy. In any case, how would we have been disadvantaged by bringing in an experienced OC?
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AND JUST BTW, I believe that we have a better offense than 2004. Our offense is the very best we've ever had.

 

[Brownfan80]

Every offense has failed plays. Failed plays always look bad on the OC, but if they work then he's a genius.

The OC did not turn the ball over five times. If the players that did not execute had executed (not fumbled) we'd have won by far more than the final score. Against the best defense in the NFL.

I thought the Pats outsmarted themselves with the double reverse, but beyond that I thought it was a great gameplan that was obviously working besides the players giving the ball away after it was already in their hands.

But then, the best D in the league is apt to take it away a bit I suppose.

All you OC haters are just unrealistic, in my opinion. The only team in the league that has just about zilch to ever complain about offensively is the Colts, and it's their PLAYERS that make the execution of the playcalls look so good.

Our offense has accomplished alot in the face of heavy, heavy adversity. Reality says that the OC has done a good job with his situation. Reality says that the success that our offense has enjoyed in the face of lacking talent/80% turnover at WR and injuries on the OL must in part be due to the situational playcalls.

Our OC is fine. Is he the best in the league? No, but why do we expect him to be? He's done a solid, solid job in a situation that many other OCs would fail horribly.

If you want to watch a team that can just about never blame it's OC due to continually great offensive execution, then tune into the Colts regular season games. You're on your own with them in the playoffs though.