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The Myth of Wes Welker, Return Man


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I don't like Faulk returning kicks because when he fumbles the ball on a kickoff, the other team is instantly in the red zone. I think Faulk's touching the ball should be limited to between the 40's, where a fumble doesn't always generate scores for the other team, or negate a scoring opportunity for us.

amen...he can be so incredible and is truly an asset for the most part....but give him the touches in the OTHER team's territory just in case ;).....
 
I believe the Pats appeared to overpay a little for Welker for CLUTCHNESS.

Something that does not show up in stats.

Something the Patriots have valued in the past.

The ability to make the big plays in big moments in big games (like a field goal when the PK goes down).

Ask Caldwell about it when he "bugs out" in the biggest game of the year with a wide open field and he gets hit in the hands with the ball (twice). Some players have it and some don't.

We upgraded our clutchness.
 
Does that mean Antonio Perkins is also a gamebreaker at return man for the Browns? He also had 8 punt return TDs in college - even had 3 in one game against UCLA. And he did it in the same conference as Welker in the same time period.

And if 8 return TDs in college makes you a game breaker, why doesn't Romeo use Perkins on returns? Becasue the NFL isn't the Big 12.

Welker is a solid return man. I'm still not sure why saying that is an insult.

Yes, having 8 return TDs in college makes him a potential game breaker. 8 return TDs is a lot.

If your special teams blocking sucks, however, you are lucky not to get killed returning punts.

I don't know why Romeo does or does not do things, (Does he fumble?. That might be a reason), but given Romeo's great success ,there are probably more questions about his potential as an NFL head coach .
 
Yaay. Drink your Hateraid lately patsox23?
One of the reasons BB likes Welker is his return ability.
If you've been watching the games last season Troy Brown was doing far more fair catches then punt returns. I think that has a net effect on field position although it WONT show up on the score sheet of your punt return average. So I think Welker will be an upgrade in that territory.

Will he be Devin Hester good? Probably not, I'm not drinking the Spiked Koolaid yet, but he should be an improvement in our return game, especially considering our ST blocking should be better than the Dulphins' ST blocking.

I think having Hobbs and Welker as the kick returners is a good thing because I certainly don't want to see our starting tailback hurt returning kickoffs regardless of his return average. Just my humble opinion but the versatility that you get from Welker makes the trade well worth it and the fact that he is good at picking apart zone coverage as a wideout and is hard to cover man to man is another reason Wes will soon become one of our favorite Pats players to watch. And If I get this wrong then I'll let you eat my hat!!
 
Does that mean Antonio Perkins is also a gamebreaker at return man for the Browns? He also had 8 punt return TDs in college - even had 3 in one game against UCLA. And he did it in the same conference as Welker in the same time period.

And if 8 return TDs in college makes you a game breaker, why doesn't Romeo use Perkins on returns? Becasue the NFL isn't the Big 12.

Welker is a solid return man. I'm still not sure why saying that is an insult.

The Browns had the 3rd leading punt returner in Northcutt.

Perkins has appeared in a total of 6 games in two years with 2 tackles and only 3 kickoff returns, (27 yd avg.).

Why would they replace the 3rd leading PR in AFC, with a guy who is either injured or just about to be cut, based on his lack of play?

Why would you compare him to the very productive Welker?

Can't be a game breaker if you don't play.:D
 
I've seen him play many times and that statement is just not true. There are a lot of return men with more straight ahead explosiveness than Welker.

I actually like Welker for the player he is. I think it is those who don't who feel the need to make him out to be in the class of Pacman Jones or Devin Hester as a returnman.

Hester and Pacman are much better returners than Welker, but they are different kinds of returners. Welker runs straight ahead, the other two try to make every guy on the field miss, like Pacman did against us.
 
-Who do you consider a top returnman?
-I dont know what you mean by 'playmaker' but Welker caught a lot of passes in a weak offense with a horrible QB.
-If you think we got Jerry Rice, Welker will be very dissapointing. If you think we got a player who will makes plays to contribute to winning game, you will be happy.

top returnman - Hester, Maroney, Hobbs, Miller, Jones-Drew, Turner, McGee, to name a few

welker ranked 28th in KR average...14th in PR and Faulk was 5th..


Playmaker..doesnt matter who your QB is. Stallworth had 945 yards 7 TDs in 13 games with Aaron Brooks as his QB..Roy Williams had a huge year with Kitna...Boldin..Fitz..Johnson did well with a washed up Warner

catchhing a lot of passes does not make u a playmaker..hes averaging 9 ypc and 1 TD...thats not a playmaker. Playmakers make plays..they score..they get big plays. Welker..hes not a playmaker

i'll admit. I HATED THE MOVE. 2 nd rounder for welker..boooooooo but it doesnt mean i wont respect what he does..or i wont be happy. im saying hes not a playmaker nor a top returnman like someone said..
 
Yaay. Drink your Hateraid lately patsox23

Again, I beg you people to actually READ the point of this thread. I don't "hate" Welker or the Patriots. I simply think some people are going overboard and over-stating what Welker HAS DONE thus far in his career.

Will he be a great slot receiver and a playmaker on KR's and PR's? I certainly hope so. Some of you who actually READ what I posted gave me compelling arguments to think about. But this crap about "hating" when all I'm doing is pointing out what I see as exaggeration is beneath what used to be a pretty damn good site.
 
You may take some heat here......but I agree with you completely. Alot of people are looking at Welker like a #1 WR threat....which to this point HE IS NOT........His receptions almost all came in the "dump off" or slot position...and he only recorded ONE TD all year at WR.........Now, do I think BB/Pioli can utilize him to produce even GREATER things, and play a wide variety of positions for us ala Troy? Most definitely. I have seen alot of what this kid brings to the table...especially in the "fire/true grit" perspective......He is an every down player with a great motor......He does not quit and doesn't give up........He has alot of potential given the right situation. I think people need to be realistic here.......and like you provide in your stats......he is no Hester at this point given last year's figures....I'm sure alot of that had to do with Miami's poor ST blocking as well......but I for one agree with almost everything you say here......good realistic post.....


Thanks. And thanks for quoting my initial post - given I made it VERY clear that I LIKE the player, but just think some people are getting a little too amped in terms of what he has shown so far.
 
If Rodney says he's a "pain in the ass", then he's a PIA. IMO, he's a very shifty PR, more an average KR. He's not the fastest guy around, but very quick. Watched him every time we played them and never saw anyone get a solid lick on him.Always seemed to get that extra 2-5 yds.
as a PR, I used to say Troy Brown could get 10 yds in a buffalo stampede. Welker is that kind of guy.
As a slot receiver, it's telling that he had more receptions than Booker or Chambers, Mia's #1 and #2. Those guys are no slouches. Either they couldn't get open (unlikely) or couldn't be found. Welker could get open andcould be found. For a 5'9" guy, that's impressive.
I think Tommy is going to love this guy.
 
i say hobbs will stay at kr
and welker will only be the pr
 
Before you jump all over me, let me say this: I like Wes Welker. He's a nice little player. He may very well develop into Troy Brown 2.0. He's got the BB/Pioli stamp of approval, and that counts for a lot. I wasn't a big fan of what we gave up to get him, but that's a point for another day/thread.

THIS THREAD is meant to explode a myth I've noticed is being constantly peddled around here - that Wes Welker is, in addition to being the ideal slot WR, a great "playmaker" and a top return man, both on KO's and punts. It simply isn't true.

Does he have versatility? Sure. CAN he do those things - catch the ball, return kicks, return punts? Looks like it, yes. But is he REALLY good in the return game, is that ANOTHER way in which he marks a sure-fire improvement on the Patriots? No.

Wes Welker averaged a pedestrian 22+ yards per KR last season. Lots of stuff goes into that, including and especially the other S/Ters paving the way (or not) for him as he goes (22 measly yards) up the field. Maybe on the Pats he would've averaged the 28 yards-per-return that Maroney did. But here's the thing: HE DIDN'T. Know what else he didn't do? Average 10.6 yards-per-punt return, like Kevin Faulk did. Wes averaged 9.2 yards per PR last season. Again, poor S/T blocking may have played a role in that.

Welker may end up being a FANTASTIC returner for the Pats. I just think, to keep it real, people need to relax a bit about this guy. He's an UDFA hustler - we love those types. And we should. And maybe Welker will be "all he can be," and we'll love him even more. But people are peddling this nonsense about how awesome he is before he's actually every really DONE that on the field.

You want to go off on Adalius Thomas and guarantee/assume his potential impact? Go for it. That's based on something. But Wes Welker has never been what people here seem to think he IS. Except for one day, in one game against the Pats last year. If he matches that from game to game, terrific, give my best to Hanolulu. I'd just like to suggest we temper our enthusiasm, just a bit, in exchange for a dose of reality, while keeping a mug of hopeful on the side, where it belongs.

Here is where I blow up your arguement. Miami's SP units all sucked last year. Their coverage teams sucked, and while Welker is a good returner, they didn't have good units blocking for him. Welker would get the kick and come one or two blocks away from breaking it, but he would never get that block.

NE was 3rd in Punt return avg, while MIA was 11th in punt return avg. NE ranked 1st in KR average. MIA was seventh worst in KR avg allowed.

Basically, he is going from a team that had an overall bad SP unit, to a team that has some of the best SP unit's, and the one unit Miami had that actually was fairly good (11th in punt return avg) Welker had a direct effect on.

I watched that guy score three return TD's during a single college game, you aren't going to tell me he isn't a good returner.
 
Lets hope that the Dolphins just suck at Special Teams because I'm not all that impressed with his average return yards. This isn't to say that he is going to stink it up back there, because I don't think he will. I am just thinking that he isn't going to break a game open with ever opportunity like we used to see with Dante Hall in KC. Then again, maybe he just needs to hit his prime.

There is still no doubt to me that he can make things happen as a slot receiver. Somebody posted that Youtube of him against the Steelers that blew my mind. Then you got Rodney making comments about how much of a pain in the butt he is to cover. These are all good things. Hopefully he will only be better with the Patriots because he did cost a pretty penny which I think was on greater potential and not on previous results.
 
top returnman - Hester, Maroney, Hobbs, Miller, Jones-Drew, Turner, McGee, to name a few

welker ranked 28th in KR average...14th in PR and Faulk was 5th..

Yep, just IGNORE the fact the special teams blocking in Miami STUNK last year.

Also, lets also put the punt return in perspective. Welker averaged 9.2 yards per punt return. Faulk averaged 10.6 yards per return. A whopping 1.4 yards per return difference. That's not a lot. Especially when you take into consideration how bad the Miami punt return blocking was. Miami had to take 29 fair catches on 70 punts or 41% of the time ( 6 more than any other team). By comparison, the Pats only had to make 14 fair catches on 50 punts or 28% of the time.


Playmaker..doesnt matter who your QB is. Stallworth had 945 yards 7 TDs in 13 games with Aaron Brooks as his QB..Roy Williams had a huge year with Kitna...Boldin..Fitz..Johnson did well with a washed up Warner

This is garbage. It does matter who your QB is. Otherwise Randy Moss would have made Aaron Brooks and the other Raider QBs look good.

Williams had a huge year because he was the only other option outside of Mike Furrey.

Boldin, Fitz and Johnson caught more passes from Leinhart than they did Warner. And even with Warner there, he's more than adequate and still a step up from Harrington and 3 steps up on Cleo Lemon.

catchhing a lot of passes does not make u a playmaker..hes averaging 9 ypc and 1 TD...thats not a playmaker. Playmakers make plays..they score..they get big plays. Welker..hes not a playmaker

Actually, Welker averaged 10.3 YPC. That is 67 receptions for 687 yards. Of the 687 yards, 285 of them were Yards after catch. Please re-read that last statement. So, 40% of Welker's yardage came AFTER he caught the ball. You know what that tells me? Welker was getting thrown a lot of SHORT passes and proceeded to advance the ball 4 yards more after each catch. That's ALOT.

To give you a frame of reference, Stallworth had 218 YAC on 38 receptions, Branch had 187 YAC on 53 receptions, Caldwell had 221 YAC on 61 receptions, and Mike Furrey had 271 YAC on 98 receptions.

Now, something else. Just because you don't SCORE doesn't mean you aren't a play-maker. There are these wonderful little things called 1st downs. They are what allow your team to get into scoring position. 33 of Welker's 67 receptions resulted in a 1st down. To me, that is the sign of a play-maker. I can't hold it against him that Miami's offense didn't go to him in the red-zone. But then, how many teams go to the 5'9 #3 receiver in the red zone?

Even in 2001 when Troy Brown was their #1 receiver, he only caught 5 TDs.

i'll admit. I HATED THE MOVE. 2 nd rounder for welker..boooooooo but it doesnt mean i wont respect what he does..or i wont be happy. im saying hes not a playmaker nor a top returnman like someone said..

Welker is a good return man and he IS a play-maker. He's got very good hands. He was a target 100 times, making 67 catches. Of the 33 times he didn't catch the ball, 4 were drops on his part. 8 were passes that were defensed. The rest were thrown away.

With the Patriots blocking, I think that Welker will be in the 10-13 YPR on punts. I think he will be the #2 KR option unless the Pats don't add someone, but my gut tells me that the #1 option will either be Hobbs or a WR draft pick.

Now, before anyone goes off half-****ed and starts acting like I am annointing Welker as a savior or this ultimate #1 WR, I'm not. I see Welker as what Troy Brown was when the Pats has Shawn Jefferson and Terry Glenn. I see Welker in the same category as Wayne Chrebet was for the Jets. A tremendous role player who gives you 110% on the field every play of every game.
 
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From what I've seen I think it would be best if Welker was our punt returner but not our kick off returner. It's best for KO returners to have more straight ahead speed, while punt returners can be more quick than fast, which Welker is. I also think only doing punts would benefit him because in Miami when he did everything it looked like got a little worn out.
 
Welker also handled 89 punt and kick returns last year without coughing up the ball once.

Troy Brown was not a threat to break many punt returns in his latter years, but he also wasn't a threat to turn the ball over. There's value in that, too.

I submit that there is more value in that type of returner than, say, a guy like Az Hakim. Broke some long ones, but fumbled too much. It could be argued that if the Chargers Eric Parker had simply caught the punt he muffed against the Patriots in the playoff game this year that game MIGHT have turned out differently. There is, indeed, ALOT of value in a guy ALWAYS catching the ball! I was sad to see him go when the Chargers tried to sneak him onto their practice squad and Miami claimed him. Ouch.

pao
 
Actually, Welker averaged 10.3 YPC. That is 67 receptions for 687 yards. Of the 687 yards, 285 of them were Yards after catch. Please re-read that last statement. So, 40% of Welker's yardage came AFTER he caught the ball. You know what that tells me? Welker was getting thrown a lot of SHORT passes and proceeded to advance the ball 4 yards more after each catch. That's ALOT.

To give you a frame of reference, Stallworth had 218 YAC on 38 receptions, Branch had 187 YAC on 53 receptions, Caldwell had 221 YAC on 61 receptions, and Mike Furrey had 271 YAC on 98 receptions.

This is an excellent post. Where do you get those awesome stats?

pao
 
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