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the madness continues (Ch. MMVII)

Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by PonyExpress, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    So, Matsuzaka and J.D. Drew.... Didn't they just acquire Willy Mo Pena as the outfielder of the future, trading Arroyo to get him? So instead of keeping Arroyo for a pittance, they are going to spend 100 million on a pitcher who will HOPEFULLY have the same on field results as Arroyo the last two years.
    And Willy Mo, the player they acquired for Arroyo, and whom I heard Theo on several occasion annoint as a future star caliber player, is going to be displaced by the underachieving overpriced J.D. Drew. Why have they been complaining about Manny's salary for so long, only to dump absurd cash on a player of Drew's limited caliber? If they trade Ramirez, and "Trot" out J.D. Drew to the public as his replacement in the line-up, with only Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heilman as collateral, things could turn ugly. Sorry to vent, but I find the Sawx exasperating.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2006
  2. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

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    I have no clue what the hell they are doing .I like them going after matsusaka .i think he will be much better than arroyo.but i have no idea why they would go after drew .why not just keep nixon for half the price they are the same age and they both get injured alot .im glad to see them shop wily mo .i never liked him or that stupid trade .
     
  3. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't really trust this group anymore. When the Patriots lie about players, and transactions, and injuries, I know it's just to keep competitive advantage against other organizations. When the Red Sox put out their spin, I often feel like it's directed squarely at the fans. They're too media savvy for their own good, like a smarmy salesman who tricks people more than he needs to, because he's good at it. I actually look forward to watching Matzusaka and feel he's better than any other currently available options... (that doesn't excuse the blunders that put us in this position), but there's another part of me that says the ridiculous expenditure was a public way of justifying the already outrageous and rapidly rising ticket prices... I long for the mid 80s when I could catch a Clemens day game with 24,000 attendance for 4 bucks in the bleachers. Sure the area around the park was ratty, the seats and sightlines sucked and the ushers were all a-holes, but I liked it that way!
     
  4. Foley

    Foley Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    They didn't raise the ticket prices for next season, which is actually a pretty stupid financial move. As long as they have the smallest park in the majors, they need to have some of the highest ticket prices in order to maintain one of the highest payrolls.

    As far as Drew, I would assume that his signing would mean the end of Manny, not the benching of Pena. And considering a market where Gary Matthew Jr. gets 5/$50 and Juan Pierre gets 5/$44, Manny getting 2/$30 (which is what he gets with some money deferred) is a bargain that would bring back a package much bigger than Aaron Heilman and Lastings Milledge.
     
  5. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Just heard Buster Olney say
    (1) The Red Sox are preparing to trade Manny for non-impact players, similar to the ones the Yankees got from Detroit for Gary Sheffield
    (2) That the "Manny being Manny" stories we know of are probably just the tip of the iceberg, and once he's traded, the Red Sox will release all the dirt they have been withholding on Manny to the press.
    (3) That Terry Francona is just fed up with having to "swallow Manny's garbage".
    (4) The Sox will pay JD Drew $14 million per year for 4 years, despite the fact his teammates nicknamed him "Nancy Drew" in LA, that Tony Larussa said he only gave 75%, and that no one else in baseball thinks Drew will be able to handle the pressure in Boston.
    (5) The Sox are on the verge of signing Julio Llugo, who played terribly for the Dodgers last year after being traded.
    (6) the Red Sox may sign Eric Gagne as their closer.
    (7) The Red Sox decision not to pay $7 million more for Bobby Abreu at the trading deadline, considering the current economic climate, was a disaster. Now they have to pay much more for JD Drew.
     
  6. Foley

    Foley Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think by a package similar to the one for Sheffield he means a package with top propects or borderline major league ready players. Considering that Manny is younger, better, less of a pain in the ass, and not all that much more expensive than Sheffield (2/$30 to 3/$41), he should bring in more talent.

    Sheffield was traded for two guys who've never pitched above A-Ball, and a guy with a career minor league ERA north of 4. Names that have been floated around for Manny include top prospects (Andy LaRoche: ranked the 19th best prospect in all of baseball or Chad Billingsley: ranked the 7th best prospect in all of baseball) or already established major leaguers (Brad Penny or Johnathan Broxton) And while I highly doubt this would happen, Gordon Edes even suggested the Padres could be interested and may trade Jake Peavy and Scott Linebrink for Manny.

    We won't know how much of this is true or just media fabrication until he is or isn't traded... but by all accounts the talent coming back for Manny will be much better than what came back for Sheffield.
     
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Aside from whatever happened at the end of last season, and I still believe Manny was hurt and didn't "quit" on the team like Steve Buckley might have you believe, Manny even with his antics is one of the best run producers in baseball, period.

    If Terry Francona can't deal with that, tough break, Francona isn't the commodity here, Manny is.

    Manny's like some super hot girlfriend who is a total pain in the ass, but you just have to put up with her shyt b/c she's wicked hot and she bats .315 with 40 homers and 120 RBIs every year.

    As for all the other moves, I feel like the Sox just keep digging themselves bigger holes. They've simply made too many damn moves, and have given up far too much. The jury is still out on the Beckett deal, it may end up being a great move, but they gave up too fast on Hanley Ramirez, IMO.

    Potentially, looking long-term, they could've put together an infield of Andy Marte, Hanley Ramirez, Dustin Pedroia & Kevin Youkilis. You're looking at an infield that is just cheap as fu*k and potentially better than whatever they can get from this free agent market. Theo keeps talking about patience and building a team long-term, hey, I'm all for that! But that's not what they did. Maybe that's Luchinno's fault, but I would've been all for getting by last year with stopgaps and targetting this year and the next few years as when we start building a dynasty upon our youth + a few great veterans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2006
  8. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I'm responding to various points, not directly to any one person so don't think I am getting posters confused:

    if you think the sox are hoping for Arroyo performance from matsuzaka you are going to be pleasantly surprised. Arroyo was an average-to-good pitcher in his prime. Matsuzaka is viewed as a Cy young candidate who is only 26. An ERA in the low 4s was great for Bronson: anything above 4 will be viewed as a dissappointment for Daisuke.

    Wily Mo is only 24. If he doesn't start this year the world will not end. He'd be one hell of a back-up in case an outfielder or Ortiz got hurt.

    Trot Nixon might be literally half the player JD Drew is. 2003 Trot is gone forever. He's now a high OBP singles-and-doubles hitter who still plays good enough D (though his range is decreasing) and is injury-prone, moreso than Drew. I'd love Trot as a 4th outfielder because Wily Mo and Drew can both play center (a job you typically want your 4th outfielder capable of handling). I kinda hope they offer him arbitration and he accepts (hey it isn't my money).

    Don't hold his Dodgers stint against the Lugo. The guy has years worth of success as a starter and it shouldn't be ignored because he struggled badly upon switching leagues and being forced into a superutility role. My only fear with Lugo was that they'd end up paying him $10M/yr for his age 35 and 36 seasons which it looks like won't happen.

    If Manny gets traded they'll get a hell of a lot more than the Yanks got for Sheffield. Even if they don't get big leaguers they'll get AAA guys rather than A guys. The upper part of the Sox system is pretty shallow and they could use some prospects.
     

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