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The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [mergedx2]

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. 363839

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  3. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    "Before the season even began, (Favre) had a leg up just by deciding to come back."

    Sounds like he had an open mind going into the season then.
  4. Touchback Jack

    Touchback Jack Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    lets burn him at the stake! :rocker:
  5. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    What is a writer for the Sports Xchange (whatever the hell that is) doing with a vote. This reeks of making a controversial vote in order to raise awareness of himself and the site he works for.

    Regardless, the man deserves a raise.

    *edit* I initially responded to a thread which did not explain what the Sports Xchange was.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  6. Touchback Jack

    Touchback Jack Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    a raise to the gallows!
  7. BbRrUeSwCsHkIe

    BbRrUeSwCsHkIe Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    So what. He got 98% of the vote from a group of people everyone here thinks hates the Pats. the media. Who gets 98% in anything?
    If you think it should be unanimous ask yourself what you'd say if Moss got the lone vote. Or 5, 10 votes. No one has ever been unanimous and I'm sure Brady would much prefer the Super Bowl MVP anyway.
    In terms of voting, since the award is given out before the Super Bowl this sounds a lot like the Big Papi/ARod argument in reverse.
  8. Patsgofor4

    Patsgofor4 Rookie

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    Scroll down and read some of the quotes from Packers fans. Truly pathetic. Most declare Brady "overrated" and a product of Belichick's system, although one fan does admit that Brady is "solid". Couldn't believe some of them. They would even make Ditka shake his head in disbelief.
  9. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    I guess this thread got by me.
    Fell asleep at the wheel.:)
    Sorry bout that Pats1.
    Thanks for the merge.

    The guy is a Favre homer, though.
    All the things he said about Favre leading his team
    with less talent blah blah blah.
    Brady's been there done that.
    I wonder if he felt the same way in 2004 when Manning was breaking the records.
  10. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    Why Frank Cooney's vote for Favre is not justified, despite his defense

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/patriots/index.php/2008/01/07/the-voter-speaks/

    I appreciate that the guy wrote a well thought response, and the award is an opinion. However, I am highly critical of his defense for voting for Favre. Here are some of is points.

    “I’m sitting here wondering what might have happened if (Randy) Moss had gone to Green Bay instead of New England, but that’s just a half passing curiosity. I’m astonished no one voted for Moss. The Patriots didn’t go 16-0 or have 50 TDs before Moss showed up. Tell me who the most valuable player is in that formula?

    Okay, the most valuable player in that formula is Tom Brady. You may recall that the Patriots were two dropped passes away from another AFC championship last season with the worst receivers in football. Where was Moss again? That's right, having his second straight bad season in Oakland. You tell me who is the most valuable player in THAT equation.

    Favre was the quarterback and unquestioned leader of the youngest team in the NFL, one that was expected to win only five games. He led that team to 13 wins. I think that was a more valuable INDIVIDUAL achievement than what Brady managed with his great team.

    So now it is about EXPECTATIONS? Because Brady was expected to be good, that diminishes his value, while everyone thought Favre would continue into the twilight of his career. So when Michael Jordan won MVPs in the 90s, he shouldn't have them because the Bulls were preseason favorites? What about when Favre himself won 3 MVP awards in the 90s? Shouldn't he have been penalized since everyone thought the Packers would dominate?

    The Patriots have and will continue to garner incredible team honors. It was an historic season for the Patriots and many of their players.

    And this team won 16 games due to four 4th quarter comebacks from Brady, in situations where they absolutely needed to score at critical times in crunch times, against great defenses.

    Brady was awesome behind an awesome line and with awesome wide receivers in a great system with the help of excellent defense and special teams.

    You do realize the Packers have 52 other players as well? You know, a defense that surrendered under 300 points and a handful of talented young receivers? In the games they lost, Favre laid an egg. When Aaron Rodgers came in for him, he also shined.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  11. rhodeislandpatsfan

    rhodeislandpatsfan Rookie

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    After reading the replies I feel the urge to look at my past posts to make sure I have at least an ounce of objectivity. Those cheeseheads do know that they're supposed to take those stupid hats off when the game is over don't they?
  12. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... [merged]

    We can do that? :confused:
  13. the taildragger

    the taildragger Rookie

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    "First, let’s be clear that this award is a distinctly individual honor in the ultimate team sport, which makes it extremely difficult to sort out in the first place.

    As such, it cannot be based on statistics, which reap their own rewards. The term we are addressing here is Most Valuable Player, which I take to mean most valuable to one’s team. It is, at best, an awkward phrase to evaluate, let alone quantify or justify. But, again, mere statistics should not be the sole basis of consideration. So it takes an understanding of a larger picture to get this into focus.

    Tom Brady is a great player on a great team filled with great players in a highly evolved system and a proven, veteran coach. That team, that franchise was expected to win 14 games and it won 16. Brady was awesome behind an awesome line and with awesome wide receivers in a great system with the help of excellent defense and special teams. He threw 50 touchdowns, 23 to Randy Moss. I appreciate all of that. Great players, great offense, great stats, great organization. It’s all awesome.

    In addressing the subject of the individual honor of Most Valuable Player, however, one is confronted by one of those chicken-or-egg scenarios. Was Brady great because of his team or was the team great because of Brady? There is no right or wrong answer there, just endless debate. I am familiar with this debate because it raged when Brady’s idol, Joe Montana, was the quarterback in the 49ers West Coast offense. But the fact that the question can be asked opens the way for comparing Brady’s individual accomplishments in 2007 with those of other NFL players.

    In fact, one might ask if Randy Moss was the MVP, considering that Brady and the Pats did not manage 16 wins or 50 touchdown passes before Moss arrived. Or Welker, for that matter.

    Moving on..

    Favre was the quarterback and unquestioned leader of the youngest team in the NFL, one that was expected to win only five games. He led that team to 13 wins. I think that was a more valuable INDIVIDUAL achievement than what Brady managed with his great team.

    How can one measure “Value?” …Not sure. But Favre hoisted the fate of an entire franchise squarely on his shoulders. This is a franchise that was stumbling into the 2007 season with no concept of what it could accomplish. He inspired his team as much with his attitude, on and off the field, as he did with his arm. The fact that he returned to play at all infused the team with a positive attitude and may have prevented the franchise from emotionally imploding. There’s no statistic that accurately reflects his impact on the success of the Packers franchise in 2007. But there is a terminology that is apt and that is Most Valuable Player.

    Hell, it doesn’t even mean he was the best quarterback in the league. It means exactly what it says, that he was the most valuable player to his team. Period.

    The Patriots have and will continue to garner incredible team honors. It was an historic season for the Patriots and many of their players. Within that team there are many great players, starting with Brady and including Moss, Welker and one of the best offensive lines we have seen in years. But Most Valuable Player is an individual honor and I think as an individual that


    Favre was the Most Valuable Player on his team.

    Finally, I support everybody’s right to voice their opinions and theories for our great game of football and the great people who take part in it. It’s part of what makes our great sport what it is. It is, after all, a complex game of conflict.

    Congratulations to Brady for having a spectacular seaon and to the Patriots front office for putting together perhaps the most dominant franchise in the history of the game.

    If Patriots fans would allow it, however, I think that my vote was justified for another historic player who breathed life into another historic, albeit floundering, franchise. Even amidst a flurry of honors that are indeed owed to Brady and the Pats, Favre’s contribution to the 2007 season and the Packers is certainly worthy of note and, therefore, received my one vote.

    Enjoy the postseason.
    Regards."
    Wow!

    Is he seriously suggesting he would take Favre over Brady? Isn't that the crux of the MVP debate? The guy you'd start your franchise with? He's taking FAvre? I seriously wonder how many people in Green Bay would be singing Favre's praises if they suddenly had the chance to acquire TFB. What would Ted Thompson do?

    Vote for whoever you want, but come up with a valid argument that trumps an individual candidate based on skills.

    Don't tell me about their teams. Tell me why Favre got more wins in Green Bay than Brady had he been the Packers QB. He can't. Nobody thinks Favre is a better QB than Brady. You see, that's how you are supposed to look at a league MVP.

    How can you have a League MVP that you would dump for a better player on another team?

    Re: Moss, doesn't the MVP have to be the last guy your team would ever part with? How is that Randy Moss? How is it even close? How does Moss get one GM out of 32 to vote for him over Brady? Someone please explain to me how even one writer out of 50 is justified in voting for someone other than the obvious choice?

    It's either a bias against the Pats or Brady or a bias for Favre....there's no objective way to say Favre is potentially a more valuable commodity on the free agent market than Brady.

    Tom plays the most valuable position on perhaps the most QB-dependent team in the league. That team went undefeated in the parity era, a feat that may never again be duplicated, behind +42 TDs:Ints, more than half of which did not go to Moss, while Tom engineered the greatest offense in league history.....but because you "expected" him to be great he's not as valuable as a guy who everyone expected to suck? Please explain this.

    But he doesn't stop there. He actually dug up the whole "system QB" cliche. This is where you know you've entered the Twilight Zone.

    I've never seen Peyton sit in the gun with 3-5 spread sets for an entire game against average defenses, much less week in and week out for an entire season (other than Miami part II).

    Something tells me that "highly evolved system" looks more like a Chinese firedrill with anyone else under center...someone isn't watching the games.

    And sorry, but if you think that O-line is one of the greatest we've ever seen, go throw a slumber party with Dr. Z and quit now. Indy's front four dominated them, so how can they possibly be "great?"....they are not the Chiefs like 4 years ago (lol)....they are a solid veteran unit with a smart tough center, a dominant left guard, a highly overrated LT, and a constantly rotating stable of who-dats on the other side.

    This is not David Carr behind a great O-line as you actually suggest...it's TFB...wake the **** up. Rewind to 2005 when the O-line gave up the most "hits" in the league, and got our running backs killed...with zero protection, zero big play receivers with which to dictate coverages, and zero running game, but still on a team somehow "expected" to 3-peat (probably had something to do with Brady don't you think???), he led them to the playoffs and led the league in passing. Would the Iron Man have survived while taking the most hits in the NFL? You'd see the trademark Favre chuck and duck....and "you tell me in that formula" if he's leading the league in passing.

    For once the line has been relatively healthy this season....but if you can't see that Brady put those guys in the Pro Bowl you're blind....the ability to audible protections, audible plays, read coverages after the snap while sensing the rush, the uncanny elusiveness, the lightning release, the fearlessness with which he stands into throws and takes hits that don't show up as sacks....

    there's now seven years of evidence on this guy's ridiculous skill set....to suggest "there's no right or wrong answer" or whether he's a chicken or egg?....spare us the Donald Trump routine and fire your own ass. There is no "endless debate"....YOU ARE ALONE. Ever consider that? The right answer is Brady....the chicken AND the egg...put Favre on this team and they easily lose 4-5 games...assuming of course the "iron man" survives behind that awesome O-line.

    He's right about one thing, it goes beyond stats. It's about finding ways to take over a game and carry your team to victory when the chips are down...to suggest that winning EVERY game is no big deal because the team was good on paper is just so ignorant...this wasn't the 72 Fins that went under the radar and played against nobody....these guys were being anointed after WEEEK TWO....go back to the press conference with Belichick after the San Diego game....they've played with this pressure all season....to flippantly dismiss Tom's part in winning an unprecedented 16 games -- merely a couple more than they "were supposed to win" (like 14 wins is chump change) -- is so dumb.

    I know it was 49 out of 50 votes and this rant is over the top, but I can't remember wanting to strangle somebody more in my life....

    Take his vote away.

    For the good of the game.

    Please.
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Having read these posts and heard all the sports gibberish on the radio, my response is that in this country of ours people can vote for whomever they want to vote for. This one guy feels different, it makes no difference.. when Brady goes to Canton and they list his accomplihments, no one will remember or care that this guy did not vote for Brady.. it makes no difference, it was not like it was 27 to 23.. it was 49 out of 50 that in itself is pretty remarkable. It is much ado about nothing..
  15. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

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    I agree, in the end, who cares! Giving this guy the press over his one vote is what disturbs me. He gets to praise Farve and dis Brady. There are more articles comments on this one guy who did not vote for Brady than there are solid comments on Brady winning it by the other 49.

    Typical and it makes me sick!
  16. godef

    godef Rookie

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    The lone Favre MVP vote goes to... Bret Favre? :D
  17. Double G

    Double G Rookie

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    He was on EEI this morning and is a babbling fool; he kept saying over and over statistics do not enter into this......WTF?..............
  18. One-Week Trial Jag Troll

    One-Week Trial Jag Troll Rookie

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    The thing is, Brady deserved to be the first unanimous MVP. It's been that kind of season.
  19. AStack75

    AStack75 Rookie

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    Yeah he sounded like an idiot. He didn't vote for Brady because Brady wasn't the sole reason for the Pats success plus the Pats were expected to do good this year. The Packers were expected to do poorly. That was his justification in a nutshell.

    Yet numbnuts voted for Peyton Manning during his 49 TD year. Go figure.

    The funny part of that interview was Callahan calling him a contrarian. If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black...
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