The least PatsFans consensus ever?

[patchick]

I just counted, and realized that I've been hanging around this draft board for seven years now . I can't remember a draft with such a total lack of fan consensus. We're not even gathering into opposing armies, like Barwin vs. Matthews. We're just all over the place.

Jared Odrick is the one name that comes up again and again, but usually with a resigned sigh that he'd "make sense." For OLBs, there seem to be equal numbers in the Kindle, Graham, Hughes and trade-up-for-Morgan camps, with a fair bit of support for waiting or trading back for Dunlap, Misi, Wootton, or Sapp, or even Te'O-Nesheim, Hardy or Lane -- or some combination of those guys. There are also advocates of spending the #1 on a WR (Bryant), TE (Gresham), C (Pouncey), CB (Wilson), RB (Spiller or Matthews)...probably even more that I'm missing. I keep reading Pats mocks that are wildly different from one another and thinking "yeah, that's plausible."

On a personal level, I usually fuss over my last few picks for the draft contest until the last day. This time I haven't bothered, because I have absolutely no clue what's going to happen.

Does anybody feel differently? Want to offer some words of confidence and clarity?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Jared Odrick, Golden Tate, Ben Tate. Very few binkies this year. Definitely no clear cut consensus.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

Jared Odrick seems like the consensus for whatever reason just like Conner Barwin was in 2009, not sure about 2008, Adam Carriker in 2007 and Bobby Carpenter in 2006. The funny thing about this board is if they read anything about a player that says the Pats like him or they fit their system, that player instantly becomes their binky. Like the rest I listed above, Odrick would be a ridiculous pick in the first round that makes absolutely no sense when pass rushers are very slim and they can probably get a better DE later in the draft.

*Jermaine Gresham comes in a close second which is extremely stupid when the Pats had more athletically gifted TE's yet never threw to them. This would be another horrendous-stupid pick in the first round.

 

[MaineMan]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

I just counted, and realized that I've been hanging around this draft board for seven years now . I can't remember a draft with such a total lack of fan consensus. We're not even gathering into opposing armies, like Barwin vs. Matthews. We're just all over the place.

Jared Odrick is the one name that comes up again and again, but usually with a resigned sigh that he'd "make sense." For OLBs, there seem to be equal numbers in the Kindle, Graham, Hughes and trade-up-for-Morgan camps, with a fair bit of support for waiting or trading back for Dunlap, Misi, Wootton, or Sapp, or even Te'O-Nesheim, Hardy or Lane -- or some combination of those guys. There are also advocates of spending the #1 on a WR (Bryant), TE (Gresham), C (Pouncey), CB (Wilson), RB (Spiller or Matthews)...probably even more that I'm missing. I keep reading Pats mocks that are wildly different from one another and thinking "yeah, that's plausible."

On a personal level, I usually fuss over my last few picks for the draft contest until the last day. This time I haven't bothered, because I have absolutely no clue what's going to happen.

Does anybody feel differently? Want to offer some words of confidence and clarity?

Sorry to disappoint, but I usually don't break out into "confidence and clarity" until after my 5th bourbon and I'm only on number three (6th bourbon I break out into bad singing and 8th bourbon I break . . . . something. Just FYI).

While I haven't been here very long, I can't really comment on local history. However, I can verify from hanging out on other, neutral boards (yes, it's true, I "post around"), that a lot of folks are enduring similar chaos wrt other teams and this draft in general. I think it's a consequence of this class being unusually deep, at least at some positions, with a lot of less experienced (but seemingly high-upside) Juniors. There are a lot more different ways to go this time around, to get a good result. It also seems like there are more top prospects with serious injury histories/concerns. A lot of teams are, or may be, transitioning schemes/coaches, etc. No CBA, no cap means different strategizing for the future and has certainly had a profound impact on free agency this time around. It feels like a lot of the old stars are getting grey and in their final contracts, etc. All in all, it just feels like this season, especially this draft, is some sort of monumental turning point and there's a lot of insecurity and people going their own way.

Jeez! That reads like a script for a bad episode of "24".

Anyway . . .

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

the only thing i can say is not one WR. TE. OLB. DE. have realy set them sefls apart from the others


sergio kindle, could be the best OLB in this draft and he is a first round pick but is he a whole lot better. then say Koa Misi, who is a late 2th round pick im not sure.


Jared Odrick, is the best 3-4 DE in the pats pick range but arthur jones, a late 2th round pick i think has more up side.


Dez Bryant, is a top 20 pick but dose not look much better. then Mardy Gilyard, a 2th or 3rd round pick.


Jermaine Gresham, is a first. round pick but i think Dennis Pitta, a 3rd round pick could end up being a better football player.


bottom line i think it's a deep draft and BB should come out of it with a few players that could help this team for the next few years.

 

[mgteich]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

The ciomparison of the love for Barwin to Odrick makes little sense. No expecrt thought of Barwin as a first rounder. Many didn't even have him as an early second rounder. Some media folks have Odrick as the #7 opick. Most have him as the best DL after Suh, McCoy and Morgan. Most consider Odrick ready to contribute immediately at DT and DE. No one was saying that about Barwin. Lane had the potential to become another Barwin, also Jones, but it never happened.

Jared Odrick seems like the consensus for whatever reason just like Conner Barwin was in 2009, not sure about 2008, Adam Carriker in 2007 and Bobby Carpenter in 2006. The funny thing about this board is if they read anything about a player that says the Pats like him or they fit their system, that player instantly becomes their binky. Like the rest I listed above, Odrick would be a ridiculous pick in the first round that makes absolutely no sense when pass rushers are very slim and they can probably get a better DE later in the draft.

*Jermaine Gresham comes in a close second which is extremely stupid when the Pats had more athletically gifted TE's yet never threw to them. This would be another horrendous-stupid pick in the first round.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

I wouldn't say that last year was a consensus Mathews vs. Barwin year a lot of people wanted Cushing. I was strongly entrenched with Maualuga/Oher.

This year I want Kindle/Graham, whichever falls to us/costs the least to trade up for. If they don't work out I'd be fine with Gresham, Tate, Sapp, and best RB available.

My ideal rounds 1 and 2 would fall like this: #1 Graham, #2A Sapp (I say we hedge our bets and get two pass rushers early) #2B Gronkowski #2C Gerhardt

Also Meriweather was the easy guess in 07 (assuming Nelson didn't fall to us) I don't recall anyone suspecting Carriker would fall to us. I do remember a lot of speculation on Carpenter in 06 though, although I remember a lot of people pegging us with Deangelo Williams and in that sense the Maroney pick was some what of a shock.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that there is not much consensus or argument this year. We have 3-5 serious needs and 4 early picks and folks don't seem to care in what order the needs are met.

As we discussed two weeks ago, I think that there is a considerable spread between quality at 22 and quality at 44 at several positions of need: DE, OLB, C/G, CB, WR and perhaps even RB and TE.

I would be OK coming out of the first with any of
DE Morgan, Odrick, Griffen
OLB Graham, Kindle, Hughes
C/G Pouncey
CB Wilson, McCurty, Jackson
WR Bryant, Thomas, Tate
RB Spiller, Matthews
TE Greshem

I understand the need and the argument for drafting at any of these positions. I don't think that any of these players will be there at 44, and the players available will be significantly weaker prospects.

In some sense, the strongest argument couled probably be made for corner, since it is likely 22 or not at all. There are three players who might significantly help the patriots at corner, and they will all be long gone at 44. That cannot be said for any of the other postions. HOWEVER, depending on Belichick's board, one of the OLB's could definitely be judged a stud, ditto for Odrick.

Personally, I don't want us to draft a RB, TE or G early.

I just counted, and realized that I've been hanging around this draft board for seven years now . I can't remember a draft with such a total lack of fan consensus. We're not even gathering into opposing armies, like Barwin vs. Matthews. We're just all over the place.

Jared Odrick is the one name that comes up again and again, but usually with a resigned sigh that he'd "make sense." For OLBs, there seem to be equal numbers in the Kindle, Graham, Hughes and trade-up-for-Morgan camps, with a fair bit of support for waiting or trading back for Dunlap, Misi, Wootton, or Sapp, or even Te'O-Nesheim, Hardy or Lane -- or some combination of those guys. There are also advocates of spending the #1 on a WR (Bryant), TE (Gresham), C (Pouncey), CB (Wilson), RB (Spiller or Matthews)...probably even more that I'm missing. I keep reading Pats mocks that are wildly different from one another and thinking "yeah, that's plausible."

On a personal level, I usually fuss over my last few picks for the draft contest until the last day. This time I haven't bothered, because I have absolutely no clue what's going to happen.

Does anybody feel differently? Want to offer some words of confidence and clarity?

 

[TriplecHamp]

BA OLB for me
Pipe dreams: Bryant, Spiller, and McClain

 

[MaineMan]

Re: The least PatsFans consensus ever

the only thing i can say is not one WR. TE. OLB. DE. have realy set them sefls apart from the others


sergio kindle, could be the best OLB in this draft and he is a first round pick but is he a whole lot better. then say Koa Misi, who is a late 2th round pick im not sure.


Jared Odrick, is the best 3-4 DE in the pats pick range but arthur jones, a late 2th round pick i think has more up side.


Dez Bryant, is a top 20 pick but dose not look much better. then Mardy Gilyard, a 2th or 3rd round pick.


Jermaine Gresham, is a first. round pick but i think Dennis Pitta, a 3rd round pick could end up being a better football player.


bottom line i think it's a deep draft and BB should come out of it with a few players that could help this team for the next few years.

This is a huge part of the fracturing this time around. A lot of talented prospects who are very close and very difficult to see clear distinctions among. There may be a half dozen solid #3 WRs come out of the last three rounds, but not a lot of guys projected for the 1st and 2nd who feel like dead-solid-perfect #1 WRs. The gaps between prospects are very narrow and there's much more disagreement spread across way more prospects.

There also seems to have been a lot more, and more dramatic movement, up and down, in the rankings. A mere 100 days ago, Kyle Wilson was on hardly anybody's radar. Syd'Quan Thompson and Trevard Lindley were ranked among the top five or so CBs. Now Wilson seems likely to be a 1st-rounder, second CB off the board after Haden, and Thompson/Lindley might not hear their names until the 6th/7th round.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I just counted, and realized that I've been hanging around this draft board for seven years now . I can't remember a draft with such a total lack of fan consensus. We're not even gathering into opposing armies, like Barwin vs. Matthews. We're just all over the place.

Jared Odrick is the one name that comes up again and again, but usually with a resigned sigh that he'd "make sense." For OLBs, there seem to be equal numbers in the Kindle, Graham, Hughes and trade-up-for-Morgan camps, with a fair bit of support for waiting or trading back for Dunlap, Misi, Wootton, or Sapp, or even Te'O-Nesheim, Hardy or Lane -- or some combination of those guys. There are also advocates of spending the #1 on a WR (Bryant), TE (Gresham), C (Pouncey), CB (Wilson), RB (Spiller or Matthews)...probably even more that I'm missing. I keep reading Pats mocks that are wildly different from one another and thinking "yeah, that's plausible."

On a personal level, I usually fuss over my last few picks for the draft contest until the last day. This time I haven't bothered, because I have absolutely no clue what's going to happen.

Does anybody feel differently? Want to offer some words of confidence and clarity?

As others have said, the depth of this draft is making it harder to peg one person as the guy we need. In the past, when we felt we needed to pick a certain position, there was only one or two guys that would even be available at our selection and after that there was a huge dropoff.

I think what is contributing to the uncertainty just as much is that we see the team as having more needs than usual. I think OLB is winning the vote for most pressing need this year but it's much less unanimous than one position would be in years past.

I think it's just a mixture of those two factors. As you said, it's "plausible" for us to pick one of possibly seven different positions in the 1st round and based on team needs, it'd be hard to call it a bad pick.

 

[STUB STUB]

I don't remember seeing Chung, Vollmer or Brace anywhere on these boards last year.

 

[CoachK]

I don't remember seeing Chung, Vollmer or Brace anywhere on these boards last year.

Chung was all over this board last year...there was constant debate about Chung vs. Delmas

 

[patchick]

I don't remember seeing Chung, Vollmer or Brace anywhere on these boards last year.

Chung was hard to miss -- he was a big favorite here. Vollmer had a few boosters, but nobody imagined round 2. Brace didn't get too much attention because he was projected as a 2nd rounder, and of course the Pats weren't going to take an NT in the 2nd, right?

 

[CoachK]

I share your feelings about uncertainty.

I think several posters have nailed the reasons...lots of needs and lots of talent.

I would be happy with Kindle/Graham/Odrick with #22.

I think it's to high for Hughes (and hope if it's him it's after trading back).

I am not high on Sapp and wouldn't look at him in the second.

My binkies are Gerhart and Decker.

 

[jmt57]

Perhaps the reason that there is less of a consensus is due to there being more positions in need of attention than there has been in the recent past.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Annually I usually try my hand at predicting the draft but I decided to forgo that this year since there are so many talents and close ones at that,I can not even start to try and do it.

It may be easy for some to put the top names as our first 4 picks but its not realistic,we will draft that annual WTF player in the second round for sure.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I think it has a lot to do with the depth of the draft this year and the # of picks the Pats have in the first two rounds. Since there is a lot of depth at a position like OLB, people aren't so gung-ho about adding a pass rusher at 22 and feel it can addressed in the 2nd. If you miss out on Morgan or Kindle in the first, people feel you can go after a Sapp, Hardy, Misi, etc. in the 2nd without much dropoff. If you miss out on Odrick, people feel you can find a guy like Carrington in the 2nd without much dropoff.

Usually there is a decent drop off in talent at one point, but with so many talented guys in the first two rounds, I don't think there is as much urgency to get one guy b/c there are so many different scenarios that could play out and so many talented guys will inevitably be available in the first 53.

 

[DocE]

I don't think it is the depth of this draft that makes for little consensus as it is the lack of obvious great fits for the Patriots.

There is no great pass rusher in this draft at either the 3-4 DE spot or the Patriots OLB spots. If there was a DeMarcus Ware type in this draft scheduled to go around no.10, I think we'd see a lot of us clamoring to trade one of the 2nd rounders and make a move up.

The OLB's all have question marks: size, speed, character, and/or motor. I think we all disagree on these because some people are willing to overlook lack of size for production (Graham/Hughes) while others are willing to overlook character/motor questions (Dunlap/Griffen).

I feel like Odrick is exactly as Patchick described, most recognize he'd fit a need, but I think a lot of us have questions about whether he will be a difference maker.

So, nobody at OLB or DE that seems like an impact player, so move on to TE or WR?

TE: I think a lot of posters are negative on Gresham due to how the Pats have used the TE position recently and their frequent use of first round picks on TE's in the past. Throw in the fact that Gresham missed all of last year and has already had not one, but TWO ACL surgeries and he becomes a tough sell.

WR: There's basically two in Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas. I don't think you'd find fans of any team developing a consensus on either player. Bryant's character issues and time away from football due to his suspension are issue. Thomas played in a very simplified offense and there are real questions about his ability to contribute right away (not to mention his foot injury which prevented him from working out).
[[/I]

 

[Nonentity]

I completely agree with this thread. I just can't work out a path through this draft anymore. I thought I knew the top 7 picks at least - Bradford, Suh, McCoy, Okung, Buluga, Williams, Berry. And now it turns out that Scott Pioli hasn't even spoken to Kirk Ferentz about Bryan Buluga, which suggests they have very little interest in him.


I just don't know anymore



(but I will do a new edition of my mock draft on Wednesday night :snob