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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

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    I wasn't pointing my fingers at you chico. I was merely stating that people don't go back & forth with bigotry and homophobia. Either you are or your not. Some here have stated that if the country votes conservative, racism, homophobia, etc. can be blamed.

    My point is that would be impossible because we're the same country that voted Obama in.
  2. chicowalker

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    I'm a little confused still. I was just commenting on what was posted from Krauthamer's piece.
  3. PatriotsReign

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    After all the above bs, you STILL didn't answer my question? You gotta be kidding HD.

    Look, I voted for Obama because I did think he was center...not left-center or right-center, but CENTER.

    I'm sure much of the country did the same. Not everyone, but a large portion. In my entire life, this country has never voted too far to either side.

    But it was not a mandate from the masses that we wanted to go left of center.
  4. PatriotsReign

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    I was supporting your comments that "this stuff goes on all the time".

    It's not as if racism or homophobia suddenly spiked.
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    But it has:

    the number of hate groups grew by 54 percent since 2000. The study identified 926 hate groups -- defined as groups with beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people -- active in 2008. That's a 4 percent jump, adding 38 more than the year before.

    On the day after Obama's historic election, more than 2,000 people joined Don Black's, KKK Web site, a remarkable increase from the approximately 80 new members a day he was getting, Black said. His Web site, which was started in 1995, is one of the oldest and largest hate group sites. The site received so many hits that it crashed after election results were announced. The site boasts 110,000 registered members today, Black said.

    David Duke (you all remember him, right?)
    said he fears "the white European-American" heritage will soon be destroyed. He added that his Web site sees around 40,000 unique visitors a day, up from 15,000 a day before Obama won the election.


    In the city of Detroit, Michigan, where the weak economy has taken a particularly devastating toll, Jeff Schoep serves as the commander for the National Socialist Movement, one of the largest neo-Nazi groups in the United States.

    Schoep said he has seen membership grow by 40 percent in recent months, mostly because of the dire economic circumstances. It is the "most dramatic growth" he has seen since he joined the movement in the mid-1990s. The group does not reveal membership numbers to the media, he said.

    "You have an American work force facing massive unemployment," Schoep said. "And you have presidents and politicians flinging open the borders telling them to take the few jobs left while our men are in soup kitchens."


    Growing hate groups blame Obama, economy - CNN.com
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    I think he wrote it as his opinion ... but what I was referring was that his reasoning is some of the same I see here on a daily basis ... it is what it is.

    Of course he is not going to change my mind or yours ... but he does bring up an interesting theory that is the opposite of course to what it would read if a liberal was writing it.

    I posted it ... as I said to show a reason why major issues get bandaids and also to say it's one more example of the country swinging left and right and accomplishing very little.

    Some on the left here post pieces and get typical reactions from some on the right here. No question it works both ways.

    Will he get into the mind of some ... I'm sure he will ... don't they all?

    As to your last comment that he is suceeding ... well there goes you in the :snob: roll again. You simply can't get away with thinking your point is more valid than another because you are smarter or do better research. None of it is 100% absolutely true or false no matter how good you find the links unless you can find instances where there was a control group to prove your points.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    You see it that way ...

    I see it as small factions of people mobilizing to gather political strength which is protected under our rights. I don't agree with them, I think what they do in many cases is harmful and hurtful. But I have to respect that they are exercising their right to their opinion and to have some representation in government that represents them.

    If some animals had more intelligence to use a crazy example we could have a faction of chimps, parrots and maybe hamsters to represent them. Maybe they might not like conservatives and/or white people and they have that right. Would be nice if everyone found many common issues to bond on ... but we don't.

    Hate groups, religious groups, tea party people, liberal wealthy elite ... all of it forms this country for better or worse. To mandate mind control would produce a dangerous Big Brother form of government. In some ways these wacko fringe groups kind of keep things real for the rest of us and help protect us from the government becoming too powerful.
  8. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    I think he pretended to be center ... a common thing.
    He even started from near the center and his base was furious.

    My lesser problem with Obama is he does not listen to the people.
    I was wrong about Bill Clinton. I poked fun at him for waiting to see what the polls said. He was trying to weigh the mood of the country and he went from there which in hindsight is what they all should be doing in some form.

    My major problem with Obama is that he was a product of some very powerful political people. he did not decide to run for President ... he was chosen and used because of his oratory and intellectual skills. It did not hurt either that he was 1/2 black.

    So we have a President who has no power because he never had power or backbone. The most powerful reason not to vote for him was based on how many times he voted present to shy from major actions. That alone was why we should have not elected him ... we are seeing now he still refuses to have backbone and make tough decisions that may not be in his best political interest within his own party.
  9. Holy Diver

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    #80 Jersey

    I did answer your question. you CHOSE not to understand it.

    It makes NO DIFFERENCE how the election turns out, conservatives will claim the country is turning conservative. Its what they do.

    not a sigle republicna or tea party candidate could win, and FOX would claim its a victory for conservative america.

    Bush wins by 2 million votes (MANDATE)

    Obama wins by 7 Million votes (center RIGHT)


    conservatives are so full of $#!T its reDONCulous...
  10. PatriotsReign

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    Comprehension 101...I said,

    "PEOPLE don't suddenly become racist or homophobes, they either are or they're not"

    you reply with the number of organized GROUPS are increasing....so what? The number of people remains the same.

    If the number of religions increase, does that mean the number of believers increase?
  11. chicowalker

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    I didn't think Obama ran as a centrist. I thought he was always clearly a liberal.

    Icy, some of what you say seems inherently contradictory. You say he gas no backbone, yet criticize him for not following popular opinion. You he won't do what's bad for him within his party, yet acknowledge that he has done things that have infuriated the left.
  12. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    That mandate idea ... manufactured by the media is what ended up hurting the country. Bush even sounded like an idiot when he said it ... I was like wtf now???

    Every election is portrayed as a mandate and it ends up as a disaster for the rest of us. I'm expecting 2012 to be no different really. If a tea party person wins by 50.1% it will be a mandate no doubt.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  13. Holy Diver

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    #80 Jersey

    a conservative who contradicts themselves....NO WAY!
  14. PatriotsReign

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    I do understand HD...I understand your stubborness and refusal to tell me exactly how YOU would explain it.

    Or is the best you can muster up giving examples of how OTHERs have explained it?
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


    WRONG!

    "President Bush ran forthrightly on a clear agenda for this nation's future and the nation responded by giving him a mandate." -Dick Cheney


    Bush staked his claim to a broad mandate and announced his top priorities at a post-election news conference, saying his 3.5 million vote victory had won him political capital that he would spend enacting his conservative agenda.

    "I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it," Bush told reporters. "It is my style."

    "He's not reaching out; he's just saying if you agree with us, you can come along for the journey," said Rep. George Miller, D-Martinez. "And I suspect that is how it's going to play out in the second term."




    what world do you people live in?
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    #80 Jersey

    WTF else can I do? You asked me to react to a furture that has yet to unfold. I am usung past precident to help YOU understand what you seem to not be able to WANT to understand or are not able to believe.


    NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS......

    Conservatives will claim victory, even if they lose. If the elction comes out that all conservatives win...they will claim victory...


    IT DOESNT MATTER.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3S_k1dRbXY

    Maybe that video will help you out...
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Most people don't know what they are until they are confronted with a situation in which they feel encouraged to become something.

    If I were a Christian and I converted to Judaism does that mean that the ranks of Jews has grown by one while the ranks of Christians has decreased by a like number? If I am an agnostic and I suddenly become a Christian does that not swell the number of Christians by one?

    You've stated previously that you were a democrat - and now you are not. Did that not change? Did you not change the number of independents by leaving the democrats and joining the independents? You are still one person, granted, but you have switched alliances - how do you expect to "win back the country" if not by having many people change?

    The number of people does not remain the same.

    Yes, perhaps there were alot of "closet racists" and "closet homophobics" but when they become active they leave those ranks and join another - a better question for you to ask would be why, suddenly, are so many "closet" people coming out and becoming vocal? Could it be that they feel some safety in people like Beck and Rush and Sarah championing a "cause they can believe in?" Is the nation as a whole becoming more tolerent of hate groups by the incessant media chant of "Nazi this" and "Nazi that?"

    Every time a politician takes the stage, or a Beck or a Rush grabs a headline with a rant about Islam taking over the world - or Hispanics being drug lords and kidnappers (even though the majority of them are not, they are just as peacable as you or I) do they not, oh so insideously, embolden people to grab a knife and stab a Muslim cab driver?

    And so, yes, I DO think that people "become" racist or homophobic. I think there are a whole lot of people in the world who really do not form opinions on their own but who, by listening to someone they think is important, form one. I also think there are people who are/were racist or homophobic but are content to keep it to themselves - until someone or something convinces them that they are 100% correct in their opinions and that they, too, can join a group and fit right in.

    It has never really been "ok" to hate people as a group in America. Americans were always taught that we are the one nation where people are individuals and have the right to be judged as such - until now. Now it becomes fashionable to scare people by preying on their fears - by building imaginary scenerios of Muslims taking over the world, of Hispanics kidnapping your child, of death panels and Black Panthers and all sorts of hideous fates which will befall you if you do not become pro-active and fight it before it happens.

    The person with a "little bit of racism" suddenly becomes a person with a whole lot of racism. The guy who thinks the two dudes who live down the street are a little strange, but friendly enough, is suddenly viewing them in an entirely different light when someone important on the television tells them that those 2 quiet guys who never bothered anyone are hell-bent on destroying Christianity, family values and the whole dam nation if we don't watch out.
  18. DarrylS

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    I know a lot of liberals, they are a lot of things.. but elite does not fit.

    Also know a lot of conservatives, most are not elite .. but the whole term elite is misused..

    Perhaps you should review the book "Power Elite" to truly understand where the real power lies.. this stuff shaped my political beliefs, along with some very wise words by Dwight D.

    The reality is that the "ruling, elite class" are never elected.. they control through their manipulation of markets, lobbying and spreading their influence.. often raping and pillaging all those below them.. every day your family gets gang raped by big pharma, big agra, big oil, defense contractors, wall street, banks and most of the time you do not even know it.

    The Power Elite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  19. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Alice in Wonderland World.
  20. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I don't disagree with anything you say in the above post, but I think it's hilarious how you think it is only conservatives who do all those things. You could substitute liberal for conservative, and MSNBC/CBS/ABC/CNN/NYTimes/Boston Globe for Fox and the statement is just as true.

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