The last off season hurrah...3 day mini camp

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Here are my observations:

Its NO pads, NO contact, and NOT competitive. Its NOT football. As BB has said over and over this is a TEACHING time. This is when they install most of the offense and defense. Trying to judge how a player is doing under these conditions is ludicrous. Perhaps the MOST ludicrous is assigning sacks to defensive players in a NO CONTACT drill. Unbelievable, almost Jet-like

This is NOT football folks, its just part of the process leading up to the 6 weeks of TC, where all the competition and real judgments will be made. What have have now with these reports, are nothing but reporters needing to justify their paychecks, and for the fans like myself who read every word, because I know there will be little else to talk about for the next 6 weeks. so even these phony baloney "assessments" are better than the nothing I have to look forward to.

ken

"Wars are won or lost before battle ever begins"- SunTzu

 

[patfanken]

I disagree in just one regard. They are also people. And anytime management, supervisors or any other type of authority interacts with people they have authority over, it is insightful.
With rookies they are learning their attitude, intelligence, football smarts, and ability to learn. With vets new to the team, they are learning the same but to a lesser degree.
With returning players, they all have off-season areas to work on and improve. They are all expected to be here, in shape, focussed and serious. These areas certainly contribute to the opinion the coaches are forming on these players.

Of course. You stated the obvious that I didn't think had to be articulated....but evidently I should have.

These activities have a lot of intangible benefits, otherwise they wouldn't have them. But player evaluation is at the low rung of the procedures. You can't install a play one minute and fairly evaluate a player the next. That's not good coaching. This mini camp was much more about installing the basic offense and defense, and as Mo fairly added, assessing the players' capacity to absorb and retain information, both as individuals and as a team.

The team letting Chad go was a decision that entailed a LOT more than one misalignment and one offsides in a voluntary OTA. Personally once the decision was made to let him go. I think the timing of the release had a lot more to do with professional courtesy than anything else. If they held on to him into training camp, the chances of trading him would have risen, as other teams encountered injuries, etc. But enough on Chad, he's gone, and should only become talk fodder when we play the phins.

 

[patfanken]

And yet Ocho managed to get cut...among others.

Coaches glean a lot from these supposedly non competitive practices... They assess a players ability to grasp and retain instruction on a day to day basis. They gauge a second or third year player's capacity to develop and a veteran player's ability to maintain a level of consistency.

Increasingly practices will be non contact, no pads - welcome to the CBA of 2011 - but it would be foolish to label them non competitive because they will constitute the basis of building the 53 man roster and PS. For the most part jobs aren't won or lost in OTA's, but this is where the contenders begin to be sorted out and identified or classified in anticipation of TC.

Your point about assessing a players capability to absorb and retain information is a good one, as is the trend toward more practices being non contact. However I am not alone in maintaining that these OTA's are MUCH more about teaching and installing the offensive and defensive structures than any evaluation of players beyond getting an "impression" of where they are at this point of the process. BB has been saying the same thing for years.

My post was a reaction to the rash of reports that are doing exactly the opposite. Media reports where an non-professional is making evaluations of the play of players who are in a teaching mode, not a competitive one

OTA's have as much relevance to the evaluation process as something like the Combine. You can glean some information from the results of a player's performance, but you wouldn't want to make a final evaluations based on them alone.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I didn't know where to post this, but i wanted to put this roster guess before the start of training camp. I could be completely wrong but here's my reasoning. I wanted to cut sergio, but on special teams alone i don't know if the other fringe guys can beat him out and i think they pull the plug on both pryor and brace.

QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (4) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Tony Fiammetta, Shane Vereen
WR (7) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Jeremy Ebert, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Daniel Fells, Aaron Hernandez
C (2) Ryan Wendell, Dan Koppen
G (3) Dan Connolly, Brian Waters, Logan Mankins
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (3) Brandon Deaderick, Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Jonathan Fanene, Gerard Warren
ILB(6) Jerod Mayo, Donta Hightower, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Bobby Carpenter, Tracy White
OLB(3) Jermaine Cunningham, Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard
SS (2) Sergio Brown, Steve Gregory
FS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Danny Aiken, Zoltan Mesko

 

[patsfan13]

BB gave the team the last day of OTA's off just having meetings.

This is a great message he is sending about how the off season work has progressed.

 

[BlueThunder]

I didn't know where to post this, but i wanted to put this roster guess before the start of training camp. I could be completely wrong but here's my reasoning. I wanted to cut sergio, but on special teams alone i don't know if the other fringe guys can beat him out and i think they pull the plug on both pryor and brace.

QB (3) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett, Brian Hoyer
RB (4) Danny Woodhead, Stevan Ridley, Tony Fiammetta, Shane Vereen
WR (7) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Jeremy Ebert, Matthew Slater
TE (3) Rob Gronkowski, Daniel Fells, Aaron Hernandez
C (2) Ryan Wendell, Dan Koppen
G (3) Dan Connolly, Brian Waters, Logan Mankins
T (3) Sebastian Vollmer, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon
DE (3) Brandon Deaderick, Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones
DT (4) Vince Wilfork, Kyle Love, Jonathan Fanene, Gerard Warren
ILB(6) Jerod Mayo, Donta Hightower, Brandon Spikes, Dane Fletcher, Bobby Carpenter, Tracy White
OLB(3) Jermaine Cunningham, Trevor Scott, Rob Ninkovich
CB (5) Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, Sterling Moore, Alfonzo Dennard
SS (2) Sergio Brown, Steve Gregory
FS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson
ST (3) Stephen Gostkowski, Danny Aiken, Zoltan Mesko

Agree with most of above with my opinions below. Tough choices at quite a few positions.

Larsen over Fiametta due to versatility on ST and emergency LB possibly.
5 RB's with Addai making the cut.
6 WR's with Ebert to PS.
Gerard Warren cut and on speed dial. Pryor sticks if healthy.
Sergio Brown gets cut. Allen or Moore to safety
Cole makes the final cut at CB/ST

 

[Ring 6]

Of course. You stated the obvious that I didn't think had to be articulated....but evidently I should have.

These activities have a lot of intangible benefits, otherwise they wouldn't have them. But player evaluation is at the low rung of the procedures. You can't install a play one minute and fairly evaluate a player the next. That's not good coaching. This mini camp was much more about installing the basic offense and defense, and as Mo fairly added, assessing the players' capacity to absorb and retain information, both as individuals and as a team.

The team letting Chad go was a decision that entailed a LOT more than one misalignment and one offsides in a voluntary OTA. Personally once the decision was made to let him go. I think the timing of the release had a lot more to do with professional courtesy than anything else. If they held on to him into training camp, the chances of trading him would have risen, as other teams encountered injuries, etc. But enough on Chad, he's gone, and should only become talk fodder when we play the phins.

I cannot buy that 85 didn't earn his cut by something he did in OTAs.
He was resigned to a reduced contract. Why bother if you know he will be cut.
I have no doubt it was mostly in the cards, but his one last chance ended, and whatever happened at OTA must have just been the final straw convincing BB he wasn't worth the effort.
It could have been as simple as not lining up correctly, if it was a situation that he messed up a lot last year, and was supposed to figure out in the off-season. My personal opinion was that he showed up for OTAs and BB felt he had done nothing to progress in the offseason, so he cut bait.

 

[Avenger]

Agree with most of above with my opinions below. Tough choices at quite a few positions.

Larsen over Fiametta due to versatility on ST and emergency LB possibly.
5 RB's with Addai making the cut.
6 WR's with Ebert to PS.
Gerard Warren cut and on speed dial. Pryor sticks if healthy.
Sergio Brown gets cut. Allen or Moore to safety
Cole makes the final cut at CB/ST

I would include Ebner at the espense of Sergio Brown, cut Cole.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would include Ebner at the espense of Sergio Brown, cut Cole.

I personally think that Sergio Brown has a snowball's chance in hell of making the team, much less being listed ahead of Steven Gregory on the depth chart. I'm not sure Ebner will make it either, and I wouldn't dismiss Marquice Cole.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not sure where this belongs and doubt it deserves it's own thread, so I'll post it here:

New England Patriots' Bill Belichick is the ultimate master of team building - ESPN Boston

Numberless jerseys to enhance communication. Nice twist.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I thought this was interesting insight into their thinking on eventual roster building.

Insight on 'the return of the fullback' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

And this was interesting too. Bill seems to want them to focus on physical prep in the run up to camp. Playbook is a work in progress in part based on what they saw in OTA's.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Patriots won’t take their playbooks home this summer … wait, what?

 

[mayoclinic]

FWIW, Greg Knopping highlights 5 guys he thought stood out from mini-camp:

Patriots Minicamp Concluded: Highlighting Five Standouts - Pats Pulpit

Brandon Lloyd, Bobby Carpenter, Alfonzo Dennard, Justin Francis and Shane Vereen. Interesting group.

 

[mayoclinic]

Paul Kenyon of the Providence Journal lists some positives coming out of mini camp:

Plenty of positives emerge from hectic minicamp | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

His list:

1. "Steven Gregory looks to be the missing link at safety".
2. "The pass rush should be better".
3. "Brandon Lloyd looks like the real deal".
4. "The running game will be deeper and more explosive".

If those 4 things all turn out to be true, it will be a very good season indeed.

 

[Ring 6]

Paul Kenyon of the Providence Journal lists some positives coming out of mini camp:

Plenty of positives emerge from hectic minicamp | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

His list:

1. "Steven Gregory looks to be the missing link at safety".
2. "The pass rush should be better".
3. "Brandon Lloyd looks like the real deal".
4. "The running game will be deeper and more explosive".

If those 4 things all turn out to be true, it will be a very good season indeed.

If those 4 things happen, any loss would be a fluke.

 

[mayoclinic]

Field Yates' "things learned" from OTAs and minicamps:

Things learned at OTAs, minicamp - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

His list:

1. Speed and athleticism will matter in 2012.
2. The wide receiving competition is as good as advertised.
3. A full offseason matters.
4. McDaniels a coordinator, teacher too.
5. Offensive line questions exist.

 

[mayoclinic]

The NFP's Matt Bowen looks at what players should be working on during their 6 week "summer vacation":

A guide to the NFL player's 'summer vacation' | National Football Post

His list:

1. Footwork
2. Playbook - Film Study
3. Conditioning
4. Strength/Speed
5. Act like a pro

I think this is right on. It's a misnomer to call OTAs/minicamp "offseason" workouts followed by a "vacation". The season really starts with OTAs/minicamp for basic player evaluation and teaching, followed by a 6 week individual preparation phase which focuses on conditioning and study. If those 2 things are accomplished, then guys will show up in shape and on top of things for training camp. Otherwise ... not so good. Training camp is survival of the fittest, and guys who don't get with the program will be left behind.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Film yes. Playbook...Bill didn't let them take it home. It is being revised by the coaches based on what they saw in OTA's.

As for the teacher comment, I think that is spot on. Josh is more of a QB guru than BoB was or even Charlie was. He may really help Mallett develop if he has it in him. He was taping every snap in OTA's and seen working on the side with Mallett alone and with he and Hoyer in OTA's. Of course Bob seemingly had more struggling WR's to work with while Josh seems to have some luxury in that respect this season.

 

[BlueThunder]

The NFP's Matt Bowen looks at what players should be working on during their 6 week "summer vacation":

A guide to the NFL player's 'summer vacation' | National Football Post

His list:

1. Footwork
2. Playbook - Film Study
3. Conditioning
4. Strength/Speed
5. Act like a pro

I think this is right on. It's a misnomer to call OTAs/minicamp "offseason" workouts followed by a "vacation". The season really starts with OTAs/minicamp for basic player evaluation and teaching, followed by a 6 week individual preparation phase which focuses on conditioning and study. If those 2 things are accomplished, then guys will show up in shape and on top of things for training camp. Otherwise ... not so good. Training camp is survival of the fittest, and guys who don't get with the program will be left behind.

I read somewhere that the playbook is being tweaked and no playbooks were available for study by the players during the hiatus prior to TC.

I wonder if Brady will be holding a WR camp on the WC to try to get timing down with Gaffney,Stallworth,Lloyd and the rest....

 

[BlueThunder]

Film yes. Playbook...Bill didn't let them take it home. It is being revised by the coaches based on what they saw in OTA's.

I knew I read that somewhere

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I read somewhere that the playbook is being tweaked and no playbooks were available for study by the players during the hiatus prior to TC.

I wonder if Brady will be holding a WR camp on the WC to try to get timing down with Gaffney,Stallworth,Lloyd and the rest....

I don't think so. Bill doesn't put much stock in player only workouts. They had to do those for a reason last offseason. Players will work on individual conditioning (can't lift a ton in season, too fatigued and susceptible to injury) and ramping up their football conditioning (drills) to to get through camp but they will also take time away (while hopefully not neglecting daily workouts) for vacation probably starting next week.

At that point even the off season program shuts down as coaching staffs and FO's take a 3-4 week break. Bill will be on Nantucket for 3 weeks fishing on the V Rings...For all involved it is really the last chance to rest and refresh before the long awaited and hoped for 26+ week grind commences. Couple of players are getting married late June and early July. Often the case on many teams. Players do tend to take a (mental) break the first two weeks in July before ramping up again 10 days to 2 weeks prior to camp in anticipation of camp openings by the end of the month.