The Key to 2006 - Medical Decisions

[mgteich]

DON'T RUSH PLAYERS BACK

We have Light, Koppen and Harrison. We need them in top form for the playoff run, and for the playoffs. There is no reason to rush them back. Last year's OL will be better just because the rookies have learned the pro game. Hawkins provides stability. Think of adding these three to our team at mid-season. Awesome!

 

[BelichickFan]

We paid the price for rushing Gay back by having him re-injure himself. One advantage of good depth SHOULD be that we don't need to rush guys back. In Gay's case we were unlucky that Poole and Starks were hurt too (Starks trying to play through it).

 

[fgssand]

DON'T RUSH PLAYERS BACK

We have Light, Koppen and Harrison. We need them in top form for the playoff run, and for the playoffs. There is no reason to rush them back. Last year's OL will be better just because the rookies have learned the pro game. Hawkins provides stability. Think of adding these three to our team at mid-season. Awesome!

Without a doubt, it is true, we need these payers back in top form for the playoff run, playoffs and Superbowl - however, it is also really nice to earn a bye and homefield advantage. I realize what Pittsbugh did, but also do not want to go to Denver this year.

I trust they won't be rushed back - BB is smart enough to evaluate the walking wounded based on what he sees in practice.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We paid the price for rushing Gay back by having him re-injure himself. One advantage of good depth SHOULD be that we don't need to rush guys back. In Gay's case we were unlucky that Poole and Starks were hurt too (Starks trying to play through it).

What a quaint idea, most folks felt the opposite about Poole in 2004 and again last year. I guess it just depends on fan favorites....

 

[BelichickFan]

What a quaint idea, most folks felt the opposite about Poole in 2004 and again last year. I guess it just depends on fan favorites....

Well, however serious his injuries were/weren't, the fact is they happened. Two years in a row he missed most of the season which put more risk on the health of the CB unit. Replace him with Warfield who has missed less than 10 games in his 8 year career (4 of which were a suspension) and the probability of him being hurt is way down compared to Poole.

 

[PATSNUTme]

DON'T RUSH PLAYERS BACK

We have Light, Koppen and Harrison. We need them in top form for the playoff run, and for the playoffs. There is no reason to rush them back. Last year's OL will be better just because the rookies have learned the pro game. Hawkins provides stability. Think of adding these three to our team at mid-season. Awesome!

I don't know what you mean "rush them back". In order for them to play teh teams medical staff has to give them clearence to play.

If they have been cleared to play then they are fit to play. Are you saying that BB should sit them out longer? He will be able to tell in practice if they are ready to play. I don't think that the will put a player out there that is not ready to play.

Playing with injuries is part of being a Pro Footbal player. As long a playing will not make the injury worst, then BB will decide.

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't know what you mean "rush them back". In order for them to play teh teams medical staff has to give them clearence to play.

If they have been cleared to play then they are fit to play. Are you saying that BB should sit them out longer? He will be able to tell in practice if they are ready to play. I don't think that the will put a player out there that is not ready to play.

Playing with injuries is part of being a Pro Footbal player. As long a playing will not make the injury worst, then BB will decide.

See : Gay, Randall, 2005.

Others hurt, he is rushed in, re-injures his ankle, put on IR. That's what he means.

 

[mgteich]

The coach has a choice with regard to how much to use injured players. We have overused them in the past. Sometimes a coach has no choice. When a team has adequate depth, the team allows the injured player to sit and allows the backup to step in.

I don't know what you mean "rush them back". In order for them to play teh teams medical staff has to give them clearence to play.

If they have been cleared to play then they are fit to play. Are you saying that BB should sit them out longer? He will be able to tell in practice if they are ready to play. I don't think that the will put a player out there that is not ready to play.

Playing with injuries is part of being a Pro Footbal player. As long a playing will not make the injury worst, then BB will decide.

 

[PATSNUTme]

See : Gay, Randall, 2005.

Others hurt, he is rushed in, re-injures his ankle, put on IR. That's what he means.

How do we know he was rushed in? How do we know that he wouldn't have injured his ankle and been put in IR if he had no previous injury?

 

[BelichickFan]

How do we know he was rushed in? How do we know that he wouldn't have injured his ankle and been put in IR if he had no previous injury?

Because we know he was rushed back for the 2nd half vs. Indy when Starks continue to suck. Gay was literally limping. He wasn't ready to play, Belichick took the calculated risk given the situation. Had Gay had 2-3 more weeks to rest he likely would have been 100% and at much less risk of re-injury.

 

[spacecrime]

What a quaint idea, most folks felt the opposite about Poole in 2004 and again last year. I guess it just depends on fan favorites....

I think most fans, when seeing Bam Childress playing CB, think it was unlucky that Poole was hurt. I don't think the major knock on Poole was that he isn't a good corner, but that he is fragile and missed two years in a row.

I think we would have done better last year had Poole been available to play every game.

 

[spacecrime]

How do we know he was rushed in? How do we know that he wouldn't have injured his ankle and been put in IR if he had no previous injury?

I think that if a player is hurt, then goes into a game and aggravates the same injury, that it is fair to say his original injury was not fully healed. "Rushed" is perhaps a loaded word, but it is fair to say that Gay was put back onto the playing field before he was ready.

Look at it this way: You yourself hurt your ankle at work. After a couple weeks, the company doctor clears you to go back to work. The first day back you re-injure your ankle. Do you now say the two are unrelated, that you could have injured your ankle even if you had no previous injury? Me, I'd be yelling at the company doctor and making sure I got paid for time off due to his rushing me back to work.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Because we know he was rushed back for the 2nd half vs. Indy when Starks continue to suck. Gay was literally limping. He wasn't ready to play, Belichick took the calculated risk given the situation. Had Gay had 2-3 more weeks to rest he likely would have been 100% and at much less risk of re-injury.

We are crossing into some territory that we need to be careful with.
The medical staff either clears a player to play or does not clear them to play.

Once they clear a player, he should be fit to play. If Gay was in uniform, then he was cleared to play. If he didn't feel fit to play he should have told the coaching staff. Very few NFL players are 100% by mid-season.

The implication of being "rushed back" mean that the coaching staff is putting pressure on the medical staff to declarle a player fit to play before the player is really medically cleared. The player can also tell the coaching staff that he is not fit to play, wil hurt the team, and injure himself worst if he goes out there. Will a member of the coaching staff then say, "I don't care, go out there anyway"?

 

[primetime]

The implication of being "rushed back" mean that the coaching staff is putting pressure on the medical staff to declarle a player fit to play before the player is really medically cleared. The player can also tell the coaching staff that he is not fit to play, wil hurt the team, and injure himself worst if he goes out there. Will a member of the coaching staff then say, "I don't care, go out there anyway"?

Have you ever played a sport beyond the high school level? In injuries that aren't serious enough to cause permanent damage, medical trainers will often give clearance to play to anyone who asks. It doesn't matter whether they are limping or what not. Randall Gay was clearly limping last year. Starks was most likely quite injured. Dillon was obviously playing hurt. If the players are needed, they play. This isn't junior varsity basketball, these guys get paid millions of dollars to play in those games. No one is ever 100% in the world of professional or college sports, especially in a physical game like football.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Have you ever played a sport beyond the high school level? No one is ever 100% in the world of professional or college sports, especially in a physical game like football.

Thank you for the lecture, which I didn't need.

And ,yes I have played FOOTBALL beyond the high school level, not just "a sport". Notice I'm not asking you the same question.

I happen to know a long time Head of T&C for an NFL team and he has told me what the procedure is in the NFL. Like any other part of business today, NFL teams have to always be aware of litigation by making wrong decissions on players injuries.

That is why teams, including the Patriots, have procedures to follow.

BTW, limping does not mean that you are risking season ending or carrer ending injury. Limping does not mean that you have not had the medical clearence. Gay's season ending injury could have been unrelated to the injury tha he had before the game.

 

[mgteich]

This is indeed a tough area. It is often the player that pressure the doc and the coach. We often have players on the active roster who are quite injured, and play only in an emergency. Certainly that's part of being an OL. I have no question that Starks would not have played if we had helathy defensive backs available. Ditto for Gay when he came back.

I recall Ty Law risking his career to come back when the game was slipping away fast with him out. Sometimes a player does waht he has to do. Ty did this more than once. We all know how good a memory the fans had. The team and Ty were always fine. Some players will refuse to play under such circumstances. That is what fans accused Poole of.

We are crossing into some territory that we need to be careful with.
The medical staff either clears a player to play or does not clear them to play.

Once they clear a player, he should be fit to play. If Gay was in uniform, then he was cleared to play. If he didn't feel fit to play he should have told the coaching staff. Very few NFL players are 100% by mid-season.

The implication of being "rushed back" mean that the coaching staff is putting pressure on the medical staff to declarle a player fit to play before the player is really medically cleared. The player can also tell the coaching staff that he is not fit to play, wil hurt the team, and injure himself worst if he goes out there. Will a member of the coaching staff then say, "I don't care, go out there anyway"?