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What exactly does Brick have to do for you to give him any credit?

He would have to be better. You were right on about Mangold though, he's a machine.
 
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Simple arithmetic here:

2009: JEST 3, New England 12
2010: JEST 4, New England 12
2011: JEST 6+, New England 10+

Even if every JEST pick pans out (highly doubtful), the Patriots would need only 1/3 of their picks to pan out to come out at least tied.

And all of the Patriots' busts combined still don't equal the absolute disaster that was Vernon Gholston.

I'll go even further

2011: JEST 6+(pick number 1) , New England 10+ (pick number 3,raiders..and pick number 32..own)
 
New Yorkers really can't see past New Jersey, can you? Mike Tannenbaum hasn't proven anything. To prove something, it would have to be his theory, or hypothesis, or invention. He's done nothing original, nor are the results he's getting original.

Hes a .500 GM: 32W - 32L

His claim to fame is making Woody money. The Revis contract was idiotic to pay a top 5 CB only 1 million this season.
 
I disagree. Belichick knows this is a CAP era even if it's off right now. You cannot build a team of All-stars. You can't afford it. So he doesn't want what he knows he can't keep.

And you can't even mortgage the future for a year or two of All-stars and winning, before you have to dismantle for the CAP. It has all been tried before, and failed numerous times.

What you can do is accumulate a Team of fine players with a few near Allstars, and just enough leavening of All-Pros, and a crew of good reserves capable of starting. He plans on wearing out the opposition over the long season of 16 games and as many as four playoff games. Have you ever considered that?

Why do you think the Patriots get stronger the longer the season is?

Why are the Patriots so tough in the Playoffs?

You think in terms of 22 starters. He thinks in terms of about 70 players.

Belichick plans on a roster of 53 starters, 8 PS guys being groomed, all of whom can be future starters. Another 4 or 5 players who have been injured and are on IR. And a "Shadow Roster" of 5-10 who are a phone call away. Some of the shadow guys actually are brought in in TC, taught the system, so they can be evaluated or scratched; and are sent away to await a phone call.

By the time the Playoffs roll around, he faces Teams composed of stars and scrubs with lots of holes. He still has 22 starting caliber players and no holes, but probably fewer stars (they might be on IR). No Team ever won the Superbowl with 42 player-games missing due to injury. Belichick did. He is crazy like a Fox.

As for a comparison of depth.

The Jets have, or rather had, a good Offensive line. Faneca supposedly got old, so he was shipped off, and a second round draft pick Vladimir Ducasse was given his job at LG. But it turns out that there are two problems. Ducasse from a small school and not a lot of experience playing football, is not ready; and Woody the ex-Pat RT has apparently given in and eaten himself out of a job. The only reserves you have are Slauson, never considered stating material and a 6th round draft pick; and Hunter, a UDFA. Two holes, no answers is a conundrum.

Compare to the Patriots, who also have a vacancy, or potential vacancy, at LG due to a holdout by Probowl LG Logan Mankins.

The first substitute was to move 5 year RT starter Nick Kaczur who is losing his job, to LG. It lasted one week and he went down with a bad back and is likely going to IR.

Insert first reserve 5 year vet G Dan Connelly who has started 5 games last season.
If he doesn't cut it, we pop the stack and
Try Ryan Wendell, three year PS trainee; if he doesn't cut it,
Try one year 4th round draftee Rich Ohrnberger; if he doesn't cut it
Try 42 game ex-starter Eric Guiacuic; if he doesn't cut it,
Try 6th round draftee Ted Larsen.
If he doesn't cut it, get serious.
Move a spare reserve tackle, try one year 5th round draft pick George Bussey; if he doesn't cut it,
Insert reserve/starter tackle Mike Levoir.
Or
Pay the man.

Do you start to get the Picture and the difference between the Jets and Patriots ????

That doesn't equal good depth. That means you have bodies to throw at the situation. The back up O-linemen on the Jets are pretty damn good and in general have had playing time over the last 2 years. Wayne Hunter, Robert Turner both of them can come into any position on the line and hold there own. Behind them you have two young guys Vlad Ducasse who is a talent but is raw and probably wouldn't be more than the third backup if he doesn't win the LG job. If he doesn't then Slauson would've earned it and may be performing at a high level.

Are the Jets the deepest team on the O-line? Hell no. But are their first two backups something to worry about? Not really they are solid hold the fort type guys.
 
Hes a .500 GM: 32W - 32L

His claim to fame is making Woody money. The Revis contract was idiotic to pay a top 5 CB only 1 million this season.

He has done a good job of getting talent. That talent show'd up for the Jets in the playoffs. How did your hoarding of picks do for you in the playoffs?

The Revis comment is just foolish all contracts tend to have down years then up years. It was also a compromise Revis was supposed to honor since he wanted the four year deal and the Jets wanted a 6 year deal; essentially the Jets said we want the 6th year we'll pay you 15 million for it if you agree to take less for you're 4th year.
 
He has done a good job of getting talent.

If the Jets are such great talent evaluators why has no team started cherry picking their coaches, scouts and personnel people for GM positions, say like KC, Atlanta, Denver, Cleveland and the JETS have done with with Patriots coaches, scouts and personnel people? What that says to me is that the professional football community isn't impressed with how the Jets draft, run their organization or the people that run it.

Just my 2 cents.
 
If the Jets are such great talent evaluators why has no team started cherry picking their coaches, scouts and personnel people for GM positions, say like KC, Atlanta, Denver, Cleveland and the JETS have done with with Patriots coaches, scouts and personnel people? What that says to me is that the professional football community isn't impressed with how the Jets draft, run their organization or the people that run it.

Just my 2 cents.

The Jets O-Coordinator is in talks for being a head coach every year. Also the Jets haven't won championships; those tend to just make people assume they should pick coaches off a certain. It worked really well for the teams that picked off NE coaches didn't it? It's not like they all went on to have losing records or anything.
 
He looks fine in practices and exhibition games. Then again, so does Sanchez, but he sucks when it matters.

Hmmm...conventional wisdom would say that Sanchez sucked badly in several games last year, was a game manager for most of the season, but was actually very good when it mattered most...in the playoffs.
 
Hmmm...conventional wisdom would say that Sanchez sucked badly in several games last year, was a game manager for most of the season, but was actually very good when it mattered most...in the playoffs.

He was excellent against the Bengals, lousy against the Chargers, and completely ineffective in the second half of the Colts game.
 
The Jets O-Coordinator is in talks for being a head coach every year. Also the Jets haven't won championships; those tend to just make people assume they should pick coaches off a certain. It worked really well for the teams that picked off NE coaches didn't it? It's not like they all went on to have losing records or anything.

And we have the ultimate argument made for the Pats versus the Jets right there. From a Jets fan no less.

Mangini was just south .500 and got your Jets to the playoffs (almost made it a second time if it wasn't for Lord Farve), plus he was at least partially responsible for the talent on the team now. Mangold, Harris and Revis were selected and developed on his watch.

As for the others. Romeo had a good year with Cleveland, but too many basket cases (one now on the Jets) couldn't hold it together, Atlanta is doing well, KC and Denver too early to tell. All in all mixed results but it still speaks to the quality of people in the Pats system that the team can survive the amount of brain drain it has and not have a lull in performance.
 
Thanks. I needed the laugh.

Ummm, what are you laughing about? Brick is widely regarded as one of the top 3 LTs in the game....is that funny to you?
 
So, in short.

Jets have more talented starters

Pats have more talented backups
 
Ummm, what are you laughing about? Brick is widely regarded as one of the top 3 LTs in the game....is that funny to you?

Uh, maybe to people who don't really follow the game, that might be true.

I'd expect those who do to know better.
 
Hes a .500 GM: 32W - 32L

His claim to fame is making Woody money. The Revis contract was idiotic to pay a top 5 CB only 1 million this season.

LMAO...ignorance is bliss. Was Revis a top 5 CB when he signed his rookie deal? The deal was front-loaded and he has cashed in plenty. he held out for the deal he signed. And you fault Tanny for making a deal that many considered to be creative and fair? You can't expect that someone is going to hold out with 3 years left on their deal, especially when they held out to get said deal. But, you can comtinue to be ignorant and say that was Tanny's fault.
 
Uh, maybe to people who don't really follow the game, that might be true.

I'd expect those who do to know better.

Ok, so you know the game and declare Brick as a bad Olineman...terrific. I'd say most people in the know know better than you.
 
Ok, so you know the game and declare Brick as a bad Olineman...terrific. I'd say most people in the know know better than you.

I see that, like most Jets fans, reading comprehension is not your forte.

If you could point out where I said D'Brick was a bad OL, I'd much appreciate it.
 
The Pats philosophy is and always has been to have a very strong deep middle class. Limited superstars but many very solid dependable players which allows them to survive inevitable injuries and contract disputes. The Jets on the other hand have to get on their knees for Revis or lose their season before it even starts. Watching Hard Knocks you can sense the teams over reliance on Revis his name comes up 30 times an episode.

Interestingly enough the Patriots poor drafts of 06-08 probably had more to do with Beli NOT being as involved with the drafting process as he is now. Dimitroff and Pioli were around during those years and one would suspect Bill had more confidence in those guys and allowed them more freedom. The last two drafts have looked very good and we have been doing it with a whole new cast of characters.
 
Ok, so you know the game and declare Brick as a bad Olineman...terrific. I'd say most people in the know know better than you.

If you're going to call Jack out on this, kindly supply a few links that back up your assertion that Ferguson is a top 3 LT in the N.F.L..
 
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If you're going to call Jack out on this, kindly supply a few links that back up your assertion that Ferguson is a top 3 LT in the N.F.L..

Fair request. I can't find anything, but will continue to look. My basic point is that laughing about Brick being a solid player (or whatever the context was) made no sense to me.
 
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