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The Jets Rebuiding...


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OOOOOOpps! i'll fix it.

Also, Slausen is now the default LT because Ducasse didn't progress as anticipated.
Apparently Rex and his DC are less than enamored with their positional backups, either, noting they sucked against the Giants and they likely will be needed this season. Last season depth never really was tested. You're not usually that lucky two seasons in a row.
 
What positions is the depth of the Pats that much better then the Jets?

I believe in building through the draft, but when the Jets started to rebuild with the 2006 draft they had very little talent on this team across the board.

They used every possible resource to build this team:
Draft
Brick
Mangold
Eric Smith
Brad Smith
Leon Washington
Drew Coleman
Harris
Revis
Keller
Lowery
Sanchez
Greene
Slauson
Kyle Wilson
Ducasse
Connor
Mcknight

Trade
Jenkins
Braylon
Santonio
Cromartie

Free Agent
Woody
Richardson
Bart Scott
Calvin Pace
Pool
Leonhard
Tomlinson
Taylor

UDFA
Devito
Westerman
Ihedibo


Holdovers
Brandon Moore
Shaun Ellis
Cotchery

So while I agree that drafting is the most important aspect of building a team, Mike Tannenbaum has proven that you have to use every possible resource. With the quantity of picks the Pats have had every year they should have more impact players.

Belichick beleives the same thing. It would be interesting to see what trades, vet FA signings, other team UDFA cuts and subsequent pickups produced. Anyone want to do it?
 
In fairness, I don't think we can compare Sanchez and Hoyer. Hoyer has looked great when he was in, but it is mostly against back ups. Monday night, Sanchez was 8 for 8 against the Giants' back ups and moved the ball down the field. He looked average against the starters, but HOF-like against the back ups. So I think saying Hoyer is better now is a stretch.

Hoyer could be better, but the only way we will ever find out while he is a Patriot is the last thing we all want to happen. So I will conceed that Sanchez is better until we see otherwise.

Not necessarily. After 4-5 years of backing up, he will want to stretch his wings and will play out his option...
 
We've been through the "D'Bust" thing several times in the past. He's only the 3rd or 4th best LT in his own division. Light is better, Long is better and Vollmer may be better.

What exactly does Brick have to do for you to give him any credit?
 
AzPatsFan;1955016 ______________________________________________________________ Pats 2009 Patrick Chung 02 SS annointed starter Darius Butler 02 CB starter Ron Brace 02 NT Sebastian Volmer 02 OT future Probowl LOT Brandon Tate 03 WR probable starter Ty MacKenzie 03 ILB possible starter Rich Ohrnberger 04 G/C George Bussey 05 OT Jake Ingram 06 LS starter [B said:
Julian Edelman 07 WR Starter !!![/B]
Daryl Richards 07 DE

I agree with the general thought here. One addition for 2009 is Myron Pryor, a pretty serviceable player for a 6th round pick.
 
You can't rebuild through the draft when you only draft 4 guys each year.
 
What positions is the depth of the Pats that much better then the Jets?

I believe in building through the draft, but when the Jets started to rebuild with the 2006 draft they had very little talent on this team across the board.

They used every possible resource to build this team:
Draft
Brick
Mangold
Eric Smith
Brad Smith
Leon Washington
Drew Coleman
Harris
Revis
Keller
Lowery
Sanchez
Greene
Slauson
Kyle Wilson
Ducasse
Connor
Mcknight

Trade
Jenkins
Braylon
Santonio
Cromartie

Free Agent
Woody
Richardson
Bart Scott
Calvin Pace
Pool
Leonhard
Tomlinson
Taylor

UDFA
Devito
Westerman
Ihedibo


Holdovers
Brandon Moore
Shaun Ellis
Cotchery

So while I agree that drafting is the most important aspect of building a team, Mike Tannenbaum has proven that you have to use every possible resource. With the quantity of picks the Pats have had every year they should have more impact players.

I disagree. Belichick knows this is a CAP era even if it's off right now. You cannot build a team of All-stars. You can't afford it. So he doesn't want what he knows he can't keep.

And you can't even mortgage the future for a year or two of All-stars and winning, before you have to dismantle for the CAP. It has all been tried before, and failed numerous times.

What you can do is accumulate a Team of fine players with a few near Allstars, and just enough leavening of All-Pros, and a crew of good reserves capable of starting. He plans on wearing out the opposition over the long season of 16 games and as many as four playoff games. Have you ever considered that?

Why do you think the Patriots get stronger the longer the season is?

Why are the Patriots so tough in the Playoffs?

You think in terms of 22 starters. He thinks in terms of about 70 players.

Belichick plans on a roster of 53 starters, 8 PS guys being groomed, all of whom can be future starters. Another 4 or 5 players who have been injured and are on IR. And a "Shadow Roster" of 5-10 who are a phone call away. Some of the shadow guys actually are brought in in TC, taught the system, so they can be evaluated or scratched; and are sent away to await a phone call.

By the time the Playoffs roll around, he faces Teams composed of stars and scrubs with lots of holes. He still has 22 starting caliber players and no holes, but probably fewer stars (they might be on IR). No Team ever won the Superbowl with 42 player-games missing due to injury. Belichick did. He is crazy like a Fox.

As for a comparison of depth.

The Jets have, or rather had, a good Offensive line. Faneca supposedly got old, so he was shipped off, and a second round draft pick Vladimir Ducasse was given his job at LG. But it turns out that there are two problems. Ducasse from a small school and not a lot of experience playing football, is not ready; and Woody the ex-Pat RT has apparently given in and eaten himself out of a job. The only reserves you have are Slauson, never considered stating material and a 6th round draft pick; and Hunter, a UDFA. Two holes, no answers is a conundrum.

Compare to the Patriots, who also have a vacancy, or potential vacancy, at LG due to a holdout by Probowl LG Logan Mankins.

The first substitute was to move 5 year RT starter Nick Kaczur who is losing his job, to LG. It lasted one week and he went down with a bad back and is likely going to IR.

Insert first reserve 5 year vet G Dan Connelly who has started 5 games last season.
If he doesn't cut it, we pop the stack and
Try Ryan Wendell, three year PS trainee; if he doesn't cut it,
Try one year 4th round draftee Rich Ohrnberger; if he doesn't cut it
Try 42 game ex-starter Eric Guiacuic; if he doesn't cut it,
Try 6th round draftee Ted Larsen.
If he doesn't cut it, get serious.
Move a spare reserve tackle, try one year 5th round draft pick George Bussey; if he doesn't cut it,
Insert reserve/starter tackle Mike Levoir.
Or
Pay the man.

Do you start to get the Picture and the difference between the Jets and Patriots ????
 
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Robert Kraft mentioned "managing depth" in a recent interview. A key component of the salary cap era.
 
What exactly does Brick have to do for you to give him any credit?

He has to show he can consistently pass block. And being a good pass blocker doesn't mean playing for a team that doesn't pass all that often like the Jets did (or didn't) in 2009. He didn't give up a lot of pressures and sacks, but his per passing play performance in those categories are not all that great since the Jets pass less than any other team and by a lot compared to most teams.
 
You can't rebuild through the draft when you only draft 4 guys each year.

Simple arithmetic here:

2009: JEST 3, New England 12
2010: JEST 4, New England 12
2011: JEST 6+, New England 10+

Even if every JEST pick pans out (highly doubtful), the Patriots would need only 1/3 of their picks to pan out to come out at least tied.

And all of the Patriots' busts combined still don't equal the absolute disaster that was Vernon Gholston.
 
Also, Slausen is now the default LT because Ducasse didn't progress as anticipated.
Apparently Rex and his DC are less than enamored with their positional backups, either, noting they sucked against the Giants and they likely will be needed this season. Last season depth never really was tested. You're not usually that lucky two seasons in a row.

You mean LG Moe.

If NJ cant run the ball its going to ugly for Mark " The Appointment" Sanchez.
 
This is very good. Well done Mr. Arizona.

As for a comparison of depth.

The Jets have, or rather had, a good Offensive line. Faneca supposedly got old, so he was shipped off, and a second round draft pick Vladimir Ducasse was given his job at LG. But it turns out that there are two problems. Ducasse from a small school and not a lot of experience playing football, is not ready; and Woody the ex-Pat RT has apparently given in and eaten himself out of a job. The only reserves you have are Slauson, never considered stating material and a 6th round draft pick; and Hunter, a UDFA. Two holes, no answers is a conundrum.

Compare to the Patriots, who also have a vacancy, or potential vacancy, at LG due to a holdout by Probowl LG Logan Mankins.

The first substitute was to move 5 year RT starter Nick Kaczur who is losing his job, to LG. It lasted one week and he went down with a bad back and is likely going to IR.

Insert first reserve 5 year vet G Dan Connelly who has started 5 games last season.
If he doesn't cut it, we pop the stack and
Try Ryan Wendell, three year PS trainee; if he doesn't cut it,
Try one year 4th round draftee Rich Ohrnberger; if he doesn't cut it
Try 42 game ex-starter Eric Guiacuic; if he doesn't cut it,
Try 6th round draftee Ted Larsen.
If he doesn't cut it, get serious.
Move a spare reserve tackle, try one year 5th round draft pick George Bussey; if he doesn't cut it,
Insert reserve/starter tackle Mike Levoir.
Or
Pay the man.

Do you start to get the Picture and the difference between the Jets and Patriots ????
 
So while I agree that drafting is the most important aspect of building a team, Mike Tannenbaum has proven that you have to use every possible resource. With the quantity of picks the Pats have had every year they should have more impact players.

New Yorkers really can't see past New Jersey, can you? Mike Tannenbaum hasn't proven anything. To prove something, it would have to be his theory, or hypothesis, or invention. He's done nothing original, nor are the results he's getting original.
 
Simple arithmetic here:

2009: JEST 3, New England 12
2010: JEST 4, New England 12
2011: JEST 6+, New England 10+

Even if every JEST pick pans out (highly doubtful), the Patriots would need only 1/3 of their picks to pan out to come out at least tied.

And all of the Patriots' busts combined still don't equal the absolute disaster that was Vernon Gholston.

Homerism at its worst. If the jets hit on those 4 picks, its better than the jags the patriots pick up in later rounds. Revis and harris are better than all the players have in the same period of time.
Hitting on picks is most important, not quantity of picks.
 
Wow! ANOTHER Jets thread! How many of these are you going to put up?

Sheesh...
 
Homerism at its worst. If the jets hit on those 4 picks, its better than the jags the patriots pick up in later rounds. Revis and harris are better than all the players have in the same period of time.
Hitting on picks is most important, not quantity of picks.

Ummm . . . as but one example:

8. Jacksonville Jaguars (Original pick: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia)
RE-DO PICK: SEBASTIAN VOLLMER, OT, HOUSTON
The Jaguars have started their two rookie offensive tackles, Monroe and second-rounder Eben Britton, for most of the season, and both have had their highs and lows. But Vollmer, the 58th overall pick, has been one of the draft's bigger surprises, starting 11 games and playing well enough at left tackle to probably end Matt Light's tenure in New England in the near future. All you really need to know is that Bill Belichick clearly trusts Vollmer to protect Tom Brady's blind side.

The Patriots got him at 58.
 
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Homerism at its worst. If the jets hit on those 4 picks, its better than the jags the patriots pick up in later rounds. Revis and harris are better than all the players have in the same period of time.
Hitting on picks is most important, not quantity of picks.

I'll see your Harris, (who I wanted to draft), and Bart Scott; and raise you Mayo and Spinks and see who gets more probowls before all is said and done.
 
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