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The Iraqi Nightmare

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Wildo7, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_mi_ea/sanchez_iraq_2

    Some of us were saying this back in 2003. Too bad everyone was too busy calling those dissenters "traitors" and "unpatriotic." Way to go Anne Coulter....


    Ex-general: Iraq `nightmare' for US

    1 hour, 27 minutes ago

    The U.S. mission in Iraq is a "nightmare with no end in sight" because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today, a former chief of U.S.-led forces said Friday.

    Retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who commanded coalition troops for a year beginning June 2003, cast a wide net of blame for both political and military shortcomings in Iraq that helped open the way for the insurgency — such as disbanding the Saddam-era military and failing to cement ties with tribal leaders and quickly establish civilian government after Saddam was toppled.

    He called current strategies — including the deployment of 30,000 additional forces earlier this year — a "desperate attempt" to make up for years of misguided policies in Iraq.

    "There is no question that America is living a nightmare with no end in sight," Sanchez told a group of journalists covering military affairs.

    Sanchez avoided pointing his criticism at any single official or agency, but it appeared a broad indictment of White House policies and a lack of leadership in the Pentagon to oppose them. Such assessments — even by former Pentagon brass — are not new, but they have added resonance as debates over war strategy dominate the presidential campaign.

    Sanchez went on to offer a pessimistic view on the current U.S. strategy against extremists will make lasting gains, but said a full-scale withdrawal also was not an option.

    "The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ... America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq," said Sanchez, who works as a consultant training U.S. generals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2007
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing many of us in here, or in the world for that matter, don't already know. However, you're point about 2003 doesn't jive with what the General is saying:

    ...because of political misjudgments after the fall of Saddam Hussein that continue today...

    He's saying that post war Iraq is where the problem was. He's not saying that invading in the first place was where we went wrong. Of course, having been of the opinion that war is never what you expect it to be, and on the side of not invading in 2003, I understand what you're getting at.
     
  3. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    You're missing the point. This is going to be a major story. This is an incredibly respected General openly speaking out against the recent propaganda about how the surge is so successful. And whether or not it says "political misjudgements after the fall of Saddam" isn't the point. What is the point is that many could predict these exact problems in 2003 and were silenced or fired by the Bush administration. The post war plan was manufactured before the invasion (one would hope) and the post war mess we're in was foreseen by some who were, and continue to be, shouted down by all the flag waving idiots who thought we'd be welcomed with open arms.
     
  4. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Um, Hey Wildo, you do realize that Ricardo Sanchez was a huge part of why it got fukced up in the first place, do you NOT.

    Other than that........ YAWN..... Nothing new here, Sanchez has said this for the past couple years. No one really listens anymore because he's pretty irrelavent and not a very very good General. A patriot for sure, just not very effective (at least during his Iraq service, since he was too busy feuding with Bremer
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    All Sanchez did was capture Saddam and kill his sons, while trying to deal with the absurd and disastrous Rumsfeld decision to dismantle the Baathists. Quit blaming the soldiers and put the blame where it belongs: In the White House.
     
  6. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    How dare you criticize someone in the armed forces!!! There was a recent Senate resolution condemning a MoveOn ad doing what you just did. But hey You voted for this mess (assumption) in 2000 and 2004, so you are really in a position to criticize Sanchez lol. Americans are getting really tired of hearing from people who voted for the worst President in history, meanwhile condemning anyone who asked any questions as unpatriotic, criticizing Generals etc. for the mess they've created. Even if you're right, which you're obviously not, who was Sanchez's boss?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2007
  7. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Another clueless drone................ read your history, you obviously don't have the first fukcing clue what you're talking about.

    Way to go with the mindless BS yahoo link with news thats about a year old. By the way, Iraq is not longer a talking point for you pinheads. Get with the program :rolleyes:
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What part of the article did you read that I didn't? Where does he trash the progress of the surge? Maybe I missed something, or read a different article, but he is directly reffering to the post war period when he was in control, and serious blunders like disbanding the army were made. This isn't a criticism we haven't seen before, and quite honestly, is pretty much an on point consensus view.

    Wow are you reading into his specific words way too much. This tends to happen with people who are anti-war (not that being so is a bad thing mind you). His words are the point, and to insist that they are not is ridiculous. He did not say that invading Iraq was wrong, which he might very well feel BTW. He simply said that POST WAR planning was totally messed up. Again, this isn't something the vast majority of sensible people don't already know.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    He's blaming the general, and not the soldiers Patters, please don't try to spin PiNY's words. That being said, I agree with you that the post war strat was totally upside down.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    PiNY served, he has the right to criticize one of his own.
     
  11. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    "He called current strategies — including the deployment of 30,000 additional forces earlier this year — a "desperate attempt" to make up for years of misguided policies in Iraq."
     
  12. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Not that you even made a point worht responding to in your namecalling rant, but this is the LEAD STORY on the DRUDGE REPORT right now, which is a right wing website. So apparently someone on your side thinks this is news. And one of the main reasons why people were against the invasion was that they knew, based on the religious etc. tensions in that country, a post war plan would never be successful.

    www.drudgreport.com
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2007
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Um, so calling it a "desperate" attempt means it's failing? He is clearly saying that the current strat is a hail mary to fix what was fugged up a long time ago. He absolutely did not say whether or not that hail mary was intercepted, incomplete, or a touchdown. Again, you are seriously stretching his words, and attempting to make a point with them that clearly isn't there.
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So what does that mean exactly? Since Drudge posted a link to it on his site, then it's something more than what it is? Again, he's not saying anything he, nor the vast majority of sensible people, have said before, or think today. Is it news? Well yes, but is it anything we don't already know? Nope.
     
  15. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    haha. right. nice rationalization. Please list one thing that the Bush administration has gotten right in terms of foreign policy. All you are doing is reshaping the argument. First there were WMD, then liberation, then it's the General's faults etc. What about Bush makes you support him. I really don't understand it? Please just admit to yourself that you voted for the worst President in American history. Whether you were misled by the media or whatever, it doesn't matter, just admit it to yourself and move on. If people in this country were more willing to do that we could actually have serious conversations and make progress instead of getting defesnive and defending utter nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2007
  16. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    did I say it's anything you didn't already know? But it does further demonstrate the truly tragic disaster that is this administration.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wildo, you're quickly sounding like NEM, Holy Diver, MMIkey, MMaverick, etc... when it comes to this war. Please tell me you're not like that. All I am doing is taking the direct words of the general, and applying them accordingly. You took his words to say that he thinks we never should have invaded, and that the surge is failing. He in no way says that. Now, you're getting into some rant about WMD's and foreign policy. If you want me to defend Bush's post war handling of Iraq, you're not. His post war planning was atrocious.
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Much better.
     
  19. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    fair point. What I meant to convey was that it angers me that people have been called unpatriotic for criticism when the situation is so bad that even the top generals are speaking out publicly. He says "post-war mismanagement" but many of the items he points to were forseeable problems and reasons not to invade in the first place, and I still don't see why impeaching Bush/Cheney isn't the best option to get us out of this mess, and why the senate is wasting time voting on resolutions to condemn MoveOn.org for an ad posted that (apparently justifiably according to Sanchez) criticizes Patreaus.
     
  20. ArmyPatsFan

    ArmyPatsFan On the Game Day Roster

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    Where does he criticize Patraeus again..since it is apparently justifiable? I must have missed it..can you point out where he said anything against the Soldier or our military leadership? BTW...the link is up on cnn front page now too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2007

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