Welcome to PatsFans.com

The Iraq Red Herring

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by All_Around_Brown, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Today, what we hear is this:

    [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_2906.shtml

    So, how are we going to extract ourselves from this quagmire?
    [/FONT]
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,200
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +315 / 9 / -13

    You seem really upset that the terro plot was foiled today.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2005
  3. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

  4. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    What exactly does that have to do with Iraq?

    Answer: Not a thing.
     
  5. CPF

    CPF Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    All right, alot of people here want to "pull out", and I don't necessarily disagree with you. What I want to know is....what's the plan? What do we do, simpy leave? Do we slowly remove our troops a little at a time? Do we leave a semi-permanent contingent of troops there indefinitely to support the training of the Iraqi military? I hear alot of talk about us "getting out", but I don't hear alot of alternative plans regarding this region. Also, what do we do about Iran? We can't simply look the other way while the Middle East goes up in smoke taking Israel and who knows what else with it. So.......we "pull out"; then what? Take care, CPF.
     
  6. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I would slowly redeploy the troops to afghanistan to let the Iraqi's settle their civil war with all those troops we trained and armed...

    While in Afghanistan we can pound back the resurfacing taliban and Al Qaeda that are trying to make it back from pakistan...

    Being in Afghanistan we are real close to Iran and neighboring Iraq..

    Some Troops can be redeployed to our southern border to help the 6000 national gaurd from keeping terrorist from entering the U.S. and detonating terrorist tactics in our cities....

    We now are able to confront Iran and N korea with a position of strength, not vulnerbility and add more protection to our southern border without being bogged down in a civil war in Iraq...

    Staying in Iraq, Iran is able to arm and escalate the shiite insurgency and keep iraq BURNING....We slowly deploy and let Iraqi troops deal with the civil war, which might slow due to the U.S. slowly redeploying to afghanistan and other troubled areas with respect to fighting terrorism...

    And were right there with troops and weapons to slow any chaos if the need arises....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2006
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,200
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +315 / 9 / -13

    If we do as you prosose it will be seen as a massive defeat throughout the Muslim world. NO one ther will take us seriously least of all the Iranians.
     
  8. CPF

    CPF Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Perceptions of power do seem to be very important within that culture, I have to agree that an all out redeployment could be seen as weakness and serve to bolster the terrorists. Having said that, I do feel we need to allow them (the Iraqis) to take more control of their own country, I' not quite sure how long it should take but at some point they need to step up a bit more than they have to this point. I like the idea of placing more troops in afghanistan, but the whole border thing.......couldn't that be solved by simply giving in and building the darn wall? Take care, CPF
     
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    If we confront the Iranians, they will increase the shiite insurgency in iraq with an array of weapons, bogging us down even further...

    In afghanistan we can finish what we started, except kill 911 mastermind bin laden..

    Now we can confront Iran withiut having to deal with U.S.troops being IED'ed and killed in a array of means that Iran will supply to shiite iraqi's ..

    Iran has us in iraq as a still target, and the strait of hormuz to stop oil shipping and sabotage oil production fieds in saudi arabia, and fire missles into Israel.....

    Take the troops out of iraq and redeploy to afghanistan we now have strategic strength to aim towards iran without the fear of iraqi insurgency exploding in our troops faces.....

    We will still fight the GWOT, but from a country with access to Iraq and Iran without being bogged down in a civil war..

    We have trained iraqi's army and armed them, they will now have to controll their civil war , while we fight the GWOT....Freeing us to combat threats with WMD'S AND POWERFULL CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS..
     
  10. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    A wall can be scaled or tunneled....Exactly what they have been doing already....Fencing, electronic surveilence,border agents and troops, along with enforcing the hiring laws already established in the u.s. is our best option, imo.
    Border wall projected cost and some problems.
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/26/BORDERFENCE.TMP
    Nuclear Detonations.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LDavUG54n0&search=nuke#
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    HERE'S BUSH AT THE MEXICAN BORDER.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4TPmfW5PS0&search=Bush Politics#

    Terrorist crossing americas and mexican border!!!!!!
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0322/p01s01-uspo.html

    December 14 2005, 51 terrorist sneak into america through our southern border.
    http://jihadwatch.org/archives/009416.php

    Texas Sheriff warns the Bush Administration mexican drug smugglers help sneak in TERRORIST.
    http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/nation/02/4Border.html

    Here's an example of Nuclear detonations or it could be chem-bio bombs snuck into america by terrorist passing our porous southern border.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LDavUG54n0&search=nuke#
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    Here's 2 links about afghanistan. The taliban and al qaeda are resurfacing in afghanistan.
    TALIBAN taking over towns in southern afghanistan, and probably Al Qaeda.
    http://badgerherald.com/oped/2004/09/28/forgotten_injustices.php

    http://www.unis.unvienna.org/unis/pressrels/2004/sc7975.html


    A slow systematic troop redeploy fom iraq to afghanistan will defeat al qaeda and the taliban like we should have done back in 2001 after 911.....
    Military link in afghanistan.
    http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,95218,00.html
    ________________________________________________________________________________
    We will be neighboring iraq and iran from a point of strength...Without having to fight in a civil war in iraq.....And prove what we meant in 2001, we will punish those responsible for 911 while fighting the gwot, and confront iran about its nuclear ambitions without fear of a massive shiite insurgency in iraq fueled and supplied with an array of weapons and wmd weapons by iran...


    Rumsfeld on the IRAQ Insurgency in 2003 and now in 2006
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJrDYJYs_fo&search=Rumsfeld#

    Here's a link where U.S. GENERALS WARNING ABOUT IRAQ CIVIL WAR.
    http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/03/news/pent.php

    Irans capabilties to fuel the iraq insurgency and shutdown the strait of hormuz.
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/2/28/181730.shtml?s=lh
    _______________________________________________________________________________
    And give N.korea an ultimatum with diplomacy or military action if deemed necessary
    2 links on bush and N Korea.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2AYDuPLefU&search=DailyShow Bush%

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ9eE4QPVAw&search=DailyShow Bush%

    ________________________________________________________________________________
    .....To say leaving iraq weakens our image is wrong. we weakened our image by our half hearted attempt at bin laden and alqaeda in afghanistan, by going massive in iraq, FOR WHAT? WMD'S? NO, AL QAEDA 911 CONNECTION? NO...WE HAVE CREATED A POSSIBLE AFGHANISTAN CIRCA 1991, IN IRAQ....With the decisions to disband the iraqi army, and total dismantling of iraq core structure, only to have to rebuild with dire consequences....

    Real bad decisions by the bush administration, costly deadly, and no one held accountable???....
    Here's the bush administation architects of the Iraq War, and where they are now, Acountability?
    http://thinkprogress.org/the-architects-where-are-they-now/
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2006
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    That may be what the ME cultures say or project, but if that were the case, they would be able to deal with these problems themselves. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, why didn't the Arab League take matters into their own hands rather than call out the US to come and deal with their problem. I don't feel the need to project our power to these people. They have what we want, and we have what they want (US dollars for now). If they are good at anything, it is the art of the deal.

    To be legitimate in the world scene, however, they must step up and take care of their own house. We are enabling a perpetual state of chaos in the area by not forcing them to grow up. Colonialism lives in the ME, and for all their talk about "modernization and development", they really have no choice but to do it on their own.
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    25,200
    Likes Received:
    124
    Ratings:
    +315 / 9 / -13

    The Iraqi's are taking the lead i large parts of the country including parts of the Sunni triangle. Hopefully this trend will ocntinue. Most of the problems are occuring between the Sian militas and the Sunni militias in Baghdad. If the current operation is successful it could help a lot.
     
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,775
    Likes Received:
    230
    Ratings:
    +856 / 2 / -9

    They don't care about the Iraqi People, they want an immediate "pullot" to make the Hated Bush look bad, if we pullout it is the same as surrender, that jerk Murtha wants a pullout to further his own political day dreams.
    If John Fonda Kerry were running this war Murtha would be
    "re-enlisting and selling "war bonds".
    It's Bush their after not the war.

    Get Bush-Get Bush-Get Bush thats what it's all about.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2005
  14. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Anybody want to discuss?
     
  15. CPF

    CPF Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Ok, I'm hearing the whole "do it on their own" vibe and I agree that they need to take the reigns at some point, but the question I keep asking myself is; "Are they ready?" What would happen if we pulled out and they weren't? What if the country was taken over by the insurgency? What would be the ramifications of Iraq becoming, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist State? I want to make it clear that I am definitely not a "lock step" Right Wing Conservative (and I am not calling anyone here that), although my worldview definitely leans to the Right. I want what is best for our country, as well as our allies and the world for that matter. I hear the argument of moving our troops to Afghanistan because we would be working from a position of power, but; would we? If we simply gave Iraq to the terrorists as a place to stage from; how would we use this "position of power" in Afghanistan? Airstrikes? Military missions staged from Afghanistan? Enforced sanctions? Plus, wouldn't we be doing a great disservice to the Iraqi people we have promised a democratic government to if we left too soon? I'm open to any and all suggestions, not just those from the right side of the fence, they just have to make sense. Take care, CPF
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    What do you mean when you say that your world view leans to the right?

    When you refer to the "insurgency", do you realize you're talking about a group that wishes the US to leave Iraq and looks at the present government as a puppet of the White House? Can you blame them for either perception? If the US leaves, the "insurgency" will almost surely take control.
     
  17. CPF

    CPF Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I mean that I tend to be more conservative, both socially and fiscally.

    Uh yeah, that’s why I was concerned that they might take over the country in the absence of the U.S military and an unprepared Iraqi security force. Hence I wrote “What if the country was taken over by the insurgency?â€

    They can have any kind of perception they like. What they can certainly be “blamed†for are heinous terrorist attacks that intentionally target civilians. Please tell me I’m wrong but, it almost sounds like you feel they are justified in doing this.

    Which brings me back to the initial question “What if the country was taken over by the insurgency?†Do you have any suggestions? You seem to be of the “pull out†mindset, and you also seem to think that the terrorists will take over the country when we do leave, so……..what then? Take care, CPF
     
  18. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My point for SLOWLY redeploying to afghanistan is to finish the job we innitially started after 911....Iraq is in a civil war of sorts and we have rebuit the iraq army and armed them...They will have to step up and restore order.
    With us staying in Iraq we will have hard time dealing with Iran that has All kinds of wmd's and the ability to increas the shiite insurgency in iraq if we make a military move on iran....Being in afghanistan we can still help iraq and confront iran and n korea...As I said slowly redploy to afghanistan. and still arm the iraqi army and help them combat the insurgency with a variety of means....Just think about this saddam had no wmd's and no civil war.....We invaded iraq to find no wmd's and bring freedom, instead we made iraq into a country of burning and exploding violence...It will remain that way as long as we are still there.....The main point of iraq being controlled by a violent theocracy that relies on terrorist tactics was argued with neo-cons way back in 2002....Neo-cons said thats bullsh--, that the iraqis will embrace us and welcome democracy by throwing flowers at the troops...

    Sounds beautifull, reality is way different, conservatives thought that iraqis revolting against the us was hogwash....Ain't history a lesson, or maybe its not..The us hastoppled the iranian regime before, look what happened....History is chock full of these grand ideas that backfired on us.

    Learn or repeat the mistakes of the past.
     
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    ...................
     
  20. CPF

    CPF Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    See now I feel that is a pretty sound plan, that way we don't simply abandon the Iraqi govt. How exactly would we "help" Iraq though? Would it simply be financial or would we still conduct some training or even deploy troops on "short term missions" there? Is anybody on the Left proposing this?


    I think that there are many everyday people there that are more than happy to be out from under Saddam's thumb. I really don't want to continue to go down the same old "we should have never went there in the first place" road, we are there, I want to try to come to a consensus on what we should do now.

    I have to believe that ultimately people want to be free, some just don't know how to be. All those people came out to vote for freedom, we owe it to them to at least try don't we? Take care, CPF
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>