The Integrity League is OK with Las Vegas

[Bill Lee]

There's absolutely nothing about having a team in Vegas that compromises the integrity of the game relative to any other city in the country. It does, however, expose the NFL's hypocrisy as they have done everything they can to prevent sports betting from being legalized in other states.

I just heard a great interview that clarified the reason the NFL doesn't want legalized sports betting, and it has parallels to the deflamegate situation.

The NFL simply doesn't want the oversight that would come with legalized gambling in the USA.

They'd face a lot more scrutiny about how fair the game really is, how well officiated it really is, how fair it is about handling out discipline, etc. We can see how far the NFL has gone to fight for King Roger's powers, can you imagine how much they'd hate to have to be subject to some state gambling commissioner?

Another angle is that there still are a block of owners who won't ever vote for something that helps the Davis family. Many owners are happy that he's struggling in Oakland and won't ever lift a finger to help him out. Note how Spanos was given half a billion dollars to try to get a stadium done in SD whereas all Davis was given is the right to negotiate to be a tenant at Kronke's stadium on Kronke's terms and subject to Kronke's approval, which he's not likely to give if he can at all avoid it. Why would Kronke want to split the market with the Raiders, who have more fans in LA than the Rams do?

So, I wouldn't read too much into Jerrah's comments, the Raiders in LV are a long, long way from happening.

 

[XLIX]

I just heard a great interview that clarified the reason the NFL doesn't want legalized sports betting, and it has parallels to the deflamegate situation.

The NFL simply doesn't want the oversight that would come with legalized gambling in the USA.

They'd face a lot more scrutiny about how fair the game really is, how well officiated it really is, how fair it is about handling out discipline, etc. We can see how far the NFL has gone to fight for King Roger's powers, can you imagine how much they'd hate to have to be subject to some state gambling commissioner?

This is a very interesting perspective.

Another angle is that there still are a block of owners who won't ever vote for something that helps the Davis family. Many owners are happy that he's struggling in Oakland and won't ever lift a finger to help him out. Note how Spanos was given half a billion dollars to try to get a stadium done in SD whereas all Davis was given is the right to negotiate to be a tenant at Kronke's stadium on Kronke's terms and subject to Kronke's approval, which he's not likely to give if he can at all avoid it. Why would Kronke want to split the market with the Raiders, who have more fans in LA than the Rams do?

So, I wouldn't read too much into Jerrah's comments, the Raiders in LV are a long, long way from happening.

If that happens, it will be interesting to see how much of the old man still exists in the son. Al Davis sued for the right to relocate his team, and won.

I've gained a lot of respect for Davis over the past year. The concept of an owner who puts his own team first and stands up to the league is one I have acquired a great deal of respect for.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

So, I wouldn't read too much into Jerrah's comments, the Raiders in LV are a long, long way from happening.

I'm tempted to say at this point Jerrah is less mentally competent than Summer Redstone - I wish Jerrah would go away for good. Like a two year old, he craves attention to be known as a football authority - he's egotistical. But somehow he's stone tone deaf that he has been making an idiot of himself for years and keeps on doing it anyway.

Maybe I've known one person in my life like that that brags about themselves with an inflated view of themselves, but everybody knows better.

I bet if any of us were a sports owner, we would have more attention than we would want - I'd least I would. In that place, I'd promote my coaches and players because I damn well know they made it happen. If I tripped up, like Kraft I'd lay low.

/rant over

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

If the NFL goes to Vegas, I hope they regret it.

I hope Mark Cuban's prediction comes true - greed killed them.

Then maybe there would be a shake up with owner looking at sustainability.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

If I were the commish, the Raiders would be in LA - not the Rams. Raiders have the larger fan base. Of course, I'm thinking fans bases and sustainability while owners are greedy thinking about their fellow billionaire buddies.

 

[XLIX]

If the NFL goes to Vegas, I hope they regret it.

I hope Mark Cuban's prediction comes true - greed killed them.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the NFL burn, but I don't see how a move to Vegas is going to make that happen, especially in this case where it is a smart move. Abandoning the hellhole that is Oakland, California, is a pretty good idea.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the NFL burn, but I don't see how a move to Vegas is going to make that happen, especially in this case where it is a smart move. Abandoning the hellhole that is Oakland, California, is a pretty good idea.

Add me to the list of very frustrated fans wishing for any kind of hell on the tormentors, even if it's not likely. For Goodell and most of the owners, I hope somehow this implodes and that will be how they are remembered.

Pete Rozell definitely was better than Goodell, but wonder if I'm imagining he and Tagibue better than they really were? I hope they were less greedy and looked at the long-term picture more.

 

[raduray]

Can someone clarify why the Raiders need the NFL's permission to move. Didn't Al Davis win when he sued the NFL for this very reason? Maybe I'm not remembering this right.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

It must be difficult to be a Raiders fan... how do they define a "Raiders homer"??...

Back in their heyday, it didn't mater - they had a national following, which is what Al Davis pined for, why he moved them to LA. If the Cowboys were America's Team, the Raiders would be America's Renegades. Neither team recently have performed to deserve a national following.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Much like our friend Tom Brady, New Jersey argued against the NFL in federal appeals court and lost (NJ lost both rounds, whereas Brady won the first round and lost the second).

NJ requested an en banc review, and it was granted. The review has already taken place this past February and we are awaiting the ruling.

New Jersey is represented by Theodore Olson and the NFL is represented by Paul Clement. Sound familiar?

wow

 

[Bill Lee]

I've gained a lot of respect for Davis over the past year. The concept of an owner who puts his own team first and stands up to the league is one I have acquired a great deal of respect for.

Amen. Davis did exactly what Kraft refused to do, sued the league when he was in the right. As above, most of the league ownership still hates him for doing so.

I'm tempted to say at this point Jerrah is less mentally competent than Summer Redstone - I wish Jerrah would go away for good. Like a two year old, he craves attention to be known as a football authority - he's egotistical. But somehow he's stone tone deaf that he has been making an idiot of himself for years and keeps on doing it anyway.

To play devil's advocate, I've read that Jerrah was instrumental in getting Kronke's proposal accepted, which was pretty remarkable given that the reloaction committee had recommended the Spanos proposal. Basically he's viewed as the lead dog amongst the big money owners that seem to be controlling the league these days.

I hope Mark Cuban's prediction comes true - greed killed them.

Double amen. Hogs feed at the trough, pigs get slaughtered.

Can someone clarify why the Raiders need the NFL's permission to move. Didn't Al Davis win when he sued the NFL for this very reason?

I can't find a clear answer.

Settlement Reached in Raiders' Antitrust Suit Against NFL is from 1989 and indicates Al Davis won his suit against the NFL on moving out of Oakland.

Los Angeles relocation fee to be $550 million per team is from last year and says the teams relocating will have to pay the NFL a $550M fee. Other articles indicate that the NFL must grant approval for the teams to move.

So I don't know what's going on.

EDIT: The NFL's Los Angeles relocation process, explained suggests the current process was created as a result of Al Davis winning his suit. I guess this means Al Davis won because there was no formal relocation process in place therefore the NFL couldn't say he was violating a league rule?

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

To play devil's advocate, I've read that Jerrah was instrumental in getting Kronke's proposal accepted, which was pretty remarkable given that the reloaction committee had recommended the Spanos proposal. Basically he's viewed as the lead dog amongst the big money owners that seem to be controlling the league these days.

I'll concede Jerrah is not a total idiot - I'm just doing what a number of frustrated fans are doing.

For those that don't understand why I can't stand that guy, just multiply the time of frustration with Kraft by 20. And performing like the Jets. Don't think about it too long - it's really scary.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

Thru the years, the team I hated the most was the 70's Raiders. They tried so hard to seem criminal. At times they were criminal.

Like this.


This was about the time I started to like the Patriots.




In my mind, the Ravens are the new Raiders.

 

[CelticPatriot]

They will probably install gambling gaming screens into the stadium seats so football fans can gamble while they watch the game. I wrote this as a joke, but I could see it happening.

Besides having typical table games (slots, blackjack) they could have micro-bets on every aspect of the football game, even going down to betting on individual plays.

What could be interesting about Vegas is that the visiting team fans will have this great incentive to vacation there while their team is in town. I could see it being very lucrative even if the Raiders continue to be bad.

To be honest, you can do this in most places (Non US at least) on your phone anyway. I think sports gambling should be legal everywhere but that's for this thread.

Maybe they could have some sort of roulette included in the game. Spin a massive roulette wheel (suspended from the ceiling obviously) whatever number it lands on has to be QB in the next series. It would be good to see McCourty and Ryan Allen play QB imo. You could have blackjack too, when a team scores a TD they get drawn a card, they can choose to either stick (get a auto PAT) or hit (try for 2) or double down and have a 4 pointer. They don't actually need to run the plays* just draw the cards. Jeff "Conservative" Fisher, would never double, even if he drew 10 against a 6. Chuck Pagano on the other hand would hit on 15 v a 6 cause he's an idiot.

*unless they split, in which case they run 2 2 point attempts simultaneously, one at either end... they get to use any combination of players on each attempt, aslong as their is 11 from both Offense and Defense.

I think I'm getting a bit carried away

 

[goheels22002]

Technically Nevada is the only state where sports gambling is legal. NJ was pretty close to legalizing it a few years back but it was evetually **** down.

edit your post.

 

[goheels22002]

Nevada remains the only state where true sports gambling is legal, and by "true sports gambling" I mean the ability to wager on the outcome of individual games, as well as assorted proposition bets. Delaware has a VERY restricted ability to place parlay wagers on NFL games. And, obviously, daily fantasy is legal in many states (although DFS has a very uncertain future).

When Delaware tried to legalize sports betting, the NFL led the charge to file suit preventing it from being allowed. When New Jersey tried to legalize sports betting, the NFL did the same. They went after sports betting with the same zeal they went after Brady. Their argument was - and I swear I am not making this up - legalized sports betting in the same states where games are played impacts the integrity of the game.

I'll pause so you can stop laughing......... ok.....

They get away with the hypocrisy of playing in London, where sports betting is legal, because people don't generally view London as a gambling mecca. But now that they may be moving to Las Vegas, they get exposed for being pretty darn hypocritical.

Fan Duel and Draft Kings changed this in interesting ways, especially since there was a major revenue interest by the NFL in their ad dollars for NFLN, and owners like Bob Kraft hold a minority interest in Draft Kings. It's a baby step to Nevada casino betting parlors that could appear in most states with NFL teams.

Fundamentally, the threat of bettors altering the outcomes of games by influencing players or officials is a huge threat. Keeping an arm's length relationship is a good thing to do. The bigger societal issue of controlling access to on-line gambling is also important, particularly when you look at what on-line poker and fantasy sports does to young adults who get sucked into predatory credit card accounts from big banks. Combined with the catnip of fantasy sports and ease of on-line gambling, these things are disastrous.

A Vegas franchise is a terrible idea for all the reasons you raise.

 

[XLIX]

Fundamentally, the threat of bettors altering the outcomes of games by influencing players or officials is a huge threat.

This isn't really true. Maybe it was 50 years ago, but these days not so much.

Keeping an arm's length relationship is a good thing to do. The bigger societal issue of controlling access to on-line gambling is also important, particularly when you look at what on-line poker and fantasy sports does to young adults who get sucked into predatory credit card accounts from big banks. Combined with the catnip of fantasy sports and ease of on-line gambling, these things are disastrous.

A Vegas franchise is a terrible idea for all the reasons you raise.

I don't understand the logic behind the idea that having a team in Las Vegas increases the chances of some illicit activity. Even if someone was inclined to rig a game, do you think it matters to them that they happen to live 2,000 miles away?? They want to spend a couple hundred thousand to fix a game but can't afford a $500 plane ticket?

Legalized sports betting nationwide is inevitable. Too many states want it for it to remain illegal indefinitely. Right now we are awaiting a court challenge and even if that fails, Congress is looking to change the laws.

 

[Clonamery]

The NFL ( as a Sponsor for this) is trying it's best to bring Integrity and Transparency to Sports....thought about going to this event but I didn't want to throw up all over a bunch of bureaucratic stiffs in suits. Bad start to a week...

PwC and Transparency International Global Corruption Report: Sports

 

[goheels22002]

Legalized sports betting nationwide is inevitable. Too many states want it for it to remain illegal indefinitely. Right now we are awaiting a court challenge and even if that fails, Congress is looking to change the laws.

The ban on Fan Duel and Draft Kings would indicate that state attorneys general feel otherwise.

Fan Duel is banned in 12 states, including Nevada:

"when depositing funds or entering a paid contest, you are not physically located in of any of the following states: Alabama, Arizona, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, New York, Nevada, Texas or Washington;"

Terms of Use | FanDuel

 

[XLIX]

The ban on Fan Duel and Draft Kings would indicate that state attorneys general feel otherwise.

How so? DFS's have been declared illegal in several states based on the logic that they constitute sports gambling and sports gambling is illegal. But that certainly doesn't imply that sports gambling is going to remain illegal indefinitely.

The DFS industry is accelerating - not slowing down - the push to legalize sports betting. All those bans you mention are only helping the cause.

Nationwide legalized sports gambling is inevitable. Bear in mind that I am not saying it will be legal in *every* state. It will be like casino gambling; some states will allow it and some won't.