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The high cost of jailing people...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Couple of articles jumped out at me this AM, first of all from the projo.. 69 prison guards will start on Christmas eve.. big cost to already bloated budget,

    http://www.projo.com/news/content/ACIGUARDS22_12-23-06_963HT8S.2a9a06c.html

    But that pales in comparison to California, where 6,000 CO's make more than 100K and a couple make more than 200K..

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-guards23dec23,0,7077823.story?coll=la-home-headlines

    Overcrowding and other strains on California's prisons have sent overtime costs soaring for guards, boosting 6,000 officers' salaries to upward of $100,000 a year, with hundreds of them earning more than lawmakers and other state officials.

    Overtime costs rose 24% in the third quarter of this year over the same period last year, after having leaped 87% — to $375 million, according to the most recent figures — since the officers' current labor contract took effect five years ago. At that time, about 500 members of the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. made six figures.

    What is often not considered is the cost of retirement for all of these folks, and even though it is based on their base salary.. we will be paying for all of this for a very long time, as will our grandchildren, great grandchildren.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Whats the "Liberal Solution", lay off the guards and turn the animals loose.

    Does China have this problem, did Saddam have this problem, does Russia make a national hero out of a Coke Sniffing Wife Beating Ex Con and give him $4 million dollars because the cops gave him a little street justice (Poor Rodney)

    Turn the drug users loose, put the drug dealer away for life, execute everybody on death row NOW, take away the TV sets and the Exercise Spa's, stop letting prisoners have "sex visits" with their wives and girl friends, make prison a "living hell" then you can get rid of guards and prisoners the gang bangers and the $300 sneaker boys will think twice before they knock you over the head for your "football jersey".

    The creeps that are walking America's streets today don't fear prison, years ago the prison population was made up thieves, bank robbers and murderers, today you have your "third world element" and our Liberal society loves them, they are "different" this is diversity, "oh boy" aren't we kind and gentle, our prisons are overloaded with the "diversity crowd" but we aren't supposed to talk about it, make believe it isn't so.

    There is a problem in this country with criminals but it isn't politically correct to address it. Everybody in Politics and Law Enforcement knows it but their career's would be over if they "Tell it like it is".

    Live With It, and lock your doors.
  3. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    You know what's the most amazing thing about stuff like this...? How people like you see no correlation between the above statement and illegal immigration. Just like there's no correlation between illegal immigration and the 200 hospitals that have closed in California over the past decade.

    Oh, but policemen shouldn't do anything about illegal immigration. They should only go after the real criminals and leave the illegals alone.
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a lot more to the criminal Illegal Alien thing but the media doesn't seem to want to talk about it, if an Illegal Alien ran into a burning building and saved someones life though it would be on the front page for two f-cking years, Cute Perky Katie would have sex with them on the nightly news.

    We have been invaded and the longer it goes unchecked the bigger it grows and then someday soon we will pay the price, it's coming.

    Bush shares a lot of the blame in this "Idiotic Pandering To The Mexican Criminal"
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you have statistics correlating illegal immigration to the increase in prison population?? Interesting enough the prison population surged after the initial three strikes and you are out laws. My point is the cost, not necessarily the politics. These figures do not include the federal detention and immigration centers.
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you one of those guys who situationally interpret the constitution to meet your needs?? It is ok to carry guns, but other parts of the constitution it is ok to modify or ignore. This post was about the cost of incarceration, not necessarily the politics associated with it.
  7. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I don't think you understand how statistics and logic works. Your own post says that the prison population is increasing (hopefully you aren't suggesting I need statistics to back up something you posted). Furthermore, I submit any moron with half a brain acknowledges that the illegal immigrant population is dramatically increasing (especially in CA). I am cautiously optimistic that you're not so braindead as to dispute that point...

    Thus, the relevant question is not "do you have any statistics?" because we both agree the prison population is increasing and we both agree the illegal immigrant population is increasing. Why should I research a statistic to demonstrate something we both already agree on...?

    Rather, the relevant question at hand is: Are these statistics related or are they unrelated...? Is there a correlation or only a coincidence..? People like me say those statistics are directly related. People like you do not.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Any moron who just throws crap out there, and does not even bother to try to look it up in credible sources, NEWSMAX and Worldnet do not count, and then call people names. A thread that had to do with cost, it descends into right wing talking points. From the Department Of Justice bulletin, which is produced by the gov't might want to take a look at the most recent stats in California, never assume anything. You will note it actually went down in California..

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim05.pdf

    Noncitizens held in prison (page 5)
    6/30/05 6/30/04 Percent of all inmates
    Federal 35,285 34,442 19.3%
    California 16,613 17,890 10.1
    Texas 9,346 9,048 6.0
    New York* 7,444 8,027 11.8
    Florida 4,772 4,834 5.6
    Arizona 4,179 3,924 12.7
    Nevada 1,402 1,242 12.6
    North Carolina 1,182 868 3.2
    Illinois 1,065 782 4.2
    Colorado* 1,029 1,022 5.1
    *Report foreign-born inmates rather than non-citizens..

    Prison population Number of inmates
    5 highest:
    Federal 184,484
    California 82,138
    Louisiana 1,138
    Texas 171,338
    Texas 66,534
    Georgia 1,021

    The stats go on to say the highest rates of incarceration per 100,000 people occur in the states of La, Ga, Texas, Mississippi and Oklahoma.
  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Want some cheese with that whine...? Where did I call anyone names...? Basically I said you weren't a braindead moron. OK, I officially retract that statement and sincerely apologize for implying that you are not a braindead moron. What was I thinking...?!?
    OK, now I really regret saying you weren't a braindead moron. Newsflash: A thread started about the costs of prisons in California is going to touch on the issue of illegal immigration. That ain't a right wing talking point.
    Yes, and I also note that almost 20% of all inmates are illegal immigrants.

    Boy you sure showed me... illegal immigrants don't affect our high costs of jailing people... nope, 20% is a completely insignificant number.... :rolleyes:
  10. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Nancy Pelosi has a thing or two to say about this;
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Never mind, the point was about California, which has 10% illegal immigrants, which is not relevant to you name calling and the rest of the crap you post.. it does not matter, but when your future generations are paying big bucks for all the pensions being generated here you might want to think about the high costs being generated now.
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I was talking pensions last night with with some people at dinner. My cousin works for the MBTA, and his job has benefits that are an absolute joke. There is no way that governments can sustain the current level of spending, combined with the grossly negligent obligations it's promised out down the road. There is going to be a massive correction in the coming years. Remember I told you all so.


    As for illegals & Jails. I have friends in California. I remember seeing this on 20/20 or 60 Minutes a while ago. The show said something like 51% of all convicts in LA county jails were illegals. As for California itself, here are soem statistics.


    As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

    "The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

    Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."


    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml


    Makes me really laugh when retards don't think there is a problem with massive, unfettered, undocumented illegal immigration. Not only are there tangiable costs like these convicts, but how about the damge they've done to cause their incarceration, or worse off, the untangiables like the lives of teh rape victims, murder victims families, abused children, etc?

    This country, as a result of the path it's undertaken, is going to be in serious trouble 10, 20, maybe 30 years from now.
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Newsmax vs. Dept. of Justice Statistics... come on now, you really do not want to argue this.. us retards just don't get it do we. US retards try to present a definitive government publication, rather than NEWSMAX or Worldnet. Keep in mind this whole thing started with a discussion of the impact of high prisoner counts on states, not the federal gov't which is a separate issue.. and the impact on pension systems. I stand by the DOJ report that says California has a 10% detention rate for illegal citizens, not that it is good, but there is no need to inflate these numbers for the convenience of an argument.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim05.pdf
    At midyear 2005, 61% of noncitizen
    prisoners held in State facilities;
    39% in Federal facilities
    On June 30, 2005, 91,117 noncitizens
    were in the custody of State or Federal
    correctional authorities, down from
    91,815 at midyear 2004 (table 6).
    Overall, 6.4% of State and Federal
    inmates at midyear 2005 were not U.S.
    citizens. The noncitizen prisoner
    population increased between 1998
    and 1999, and since then it has
    remained nearly stable, increasing
    about 2.6% between midyear 1999
    and midyear 2005.
    At midyear 2005, 35,285 Federal
    inmates were noncitizens,
    representing about 19% of all
    prisoners in Federal custody.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Newsmax printed the atatistics, however, teh statistics I posted were taken from:

    The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003.

    Don't just look at the links website name and yawn. The Justice Dept. provided the figure. None the less, lets use your 10% figure for arguements sake. The illegal population in this country is supposedly 3% of the population. Think about it, they make up 3% of the general pop, but account for 10% of convicts. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with this?
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Once again you provide an anecdotal, not reliable source. You can take any group of statistics provided by the gov't out of context and play with them. You can extrapolate your figures to minorities as well, as the majority of people in prison are of color and poor.. bottom line there is a problem.. but this thread began as a concern with the high cost of corrections as we have a high rate of incarceration and corrections is a labor intensive business.

    My thread was about cost, not illegal immigration.. but instead of dealing with the present and future cost you changed the direction with NEWSMAX Statistics, don't care where they were quoted from there is no reference to the source.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok, again, THEY ARE NOT NEWSMAX STATISTICS. They are from the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. Furthermore, I am still discussing the cost of incarcerating people. How do we deal with the costs is what you are wondering, well, to me, you could cut costs by enforcing border security, thus reducing the amount of illegal aliens that enter the country. Since illegals are incarcerated at a higher rate than regular citizens (3% of pop, yet 10% of illegals in jail), it seems to me that would be one way to curb costs. Especially since illegal immigration is on the rise. Don't criticize my logical position, simply because you have a soft spot for illegals.

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