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The Health Care Debate

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Gainzo, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Why would any American be against a universal health care plan?

    I’ve heard and read many things saying that the “illegal’s” get free care. That is a load of crap as going to an Emergency Room doesn’t equal getting a checkup every 12 months.

    How many American citizens go to Emergency rooms?

    Not to mention the ridiculous rates the Insurance Company’s charge.

    I come from a family of 4 kids. My older sister is married with a couple of kids and is doing well. I’m doing well.

    My younger brother, 30, lives in San Francisco and has no health insurance (He works in the restaurant industry). My youngest brother, 24, lives in Lynn, with his wife and son, and has Mass Health. Without Mass Health my nephew would get NO healthcare
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    It's those damn baby-boomers I tell ya!:mad:
  3. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    It really is.
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    How much time do you have?

    You're right. Emergency care is much more expensive.


    Too many. Especially those on Medicaid and Medicare.

    http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7696.pdf

    The insurance company makes a profit of about 6-10%. If the price was 10% lower would you say that was a reasonable price?

    Umm, but he does have Mass Health, so... :confused2:
  5. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    Are we on the same page Brandon? The USA has the best hospitals in the world but the worst health care coverage.

    I work for a tiny Company and pay a lot for health care. I'm also one of those people that gets a checkup every year and thats it. No prescriptions or anything like that................But my girlfriends parents (staunch republicans) collect their social security, are on 5 or 6 drugs, and think Obama was born in Kenya.

    They also want to cut spending, but not SS or anything that would affect them.
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Maybe because your gf parents paid into the ss system all their lives?? just guessing here.

    I have $5-$6k/year taken out for soc sec...do you think I want to retire and hear there's no more $$ left?
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Government run health care is very inefficient and will lead to higher prices and rationing of services/

    The country is going broke to to unsustainable entitlements and now you want to add on the biggest entitlement of all?
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Blame one of the 7 deadly sins...GREED. And no matter what generation was left holding the cards when the system broke-down, they would have done the same thing.

    Since you missed the baby boom by 15 years, that lets YOU off hook, huh? :rolleyes:

    But I'd love to read your detailed explanation as exactly how the baby-boomers eff'd up. Please start when it all began....

    Your rationale is like saying the recession was Bush's fault. Or the Great Depression was Hoover's and FDR's fault...or the recession of the early 80's was Carter's fault....

    Guess what? It wasn't their fault.

    Bet you LOVE your parents!
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW BEFORE Obamacare the government has unfunded liabilities of ~130T ie > 2x the net worth of the USA.
  10. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    By what measure? It is definitely easier to cover the lesser level of care in a place like Cuba. Not sure I want to make that trade.

    If you don't use much health care services you should choose a high deductible option (lower premiums). Either that, or opt out altogether and buy catastrophic coverage on your own. Keep in mind that if you need an appendectomy it can cost anywhere from $2,500 (laparoscopic, inpatient) to $100,000 (if it bursts and you require hospitalization).

    Well I assume that in their minds they are just collecting based on the fact that they paid into the system for 40 years.
  11. Ilikehappyppl

    Ilikehappyppl Rookie

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    Health-Insurance-Should not be a money making business. You can make money off anything else sex,drugs and w/e but their should be s limit to what we make money off of. I mean we can just go full boar and do w/e you have to do to make money and have real capitalism and all live in a crazy, polluted uneducated society where we send kids to juvenile hall for doing nothing becuase the judge is bought and paid for by the private company runing the juvenile hall...opps already happend.....Just one example of why we do want everything to be a money making program/business. Its never going to be a money making governemt program and it shouldent be.....It will cost money but if we don't have it what is cost to our society?

    I love how people in this thread say "Its going to cost X amount of $ over an X amount of time."

    Should someone loose their house cause they get cancer?
    Should someone have to just Die cause they can't get insurance?
    Should our own people have to suffer cause of our greed?
    Should we not take care of our neighbors and friends?

    We start wars we can't afford to pay for....
    We give tax breaks for the richest people.....
    We give aid all over the world....
    We can give Banks billions of $$$....and intrest free money to lend at a proffit.

    But we can't even give basic Health-Care to our own people. I think its a basic need and I think we should stop all the hoopla and make an effecent and sound Healthcare system, that works by cutting down on abuse and fraud and helps the people it needs to help and at the same time paying the people that do this great service and sound wage and sound bene's. Don't make it a system where the more services you do the better you get paid and have it a system where you get paid by how healthy your clients are over a period of time in whitch you where their doctor. It has to be about the client and not the service, even though the service is a privilege and we all should really be thankful for our doctors and nurses.

    We can start to act like a family and start to change our country, or we can just keep acting like two spolied kids that want things their way and can't work out their problems. We encourage greed and we make it famous, we want other to share this concept that we have to have things to be happy or that we need money to solver our problems. Our probems are internal not extraneal but we keep looking on the outside thinking we can solve it. We don't need change you can belive in we need common sence!

    I don't understand why Obama didn't just go with a Public Option, its the best way and you can still have insurance its just a premium service. I don't agree with having to buy insurance mandatory, its just not American and its not what our ideals are that we should always have some choice.

    I understand that some people don't want to have their money spent on others, that they don't want freeloaders or people that just don't want to better themselfs. I think we can all agree that we want to help the sick that are sick and need help but don't have the money but are good people, least I don't mind. I think peple should be able to pay what they can afford and should be able to get some kind of health care service.
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I agree with you for the most part.

    No one should have to lose their anything because they don't have health insurance. And everyone should have the right to our health care system.

    Now maybe this is where we differ.

    I'd like to see drastic cuts in military spending to pay for this (at least 40-50%). I don't want middle class Americans to fund it...no way, no how...they/we just can't afford it.

    If you're hoping & waiting for middle-class Americans to say, "Hey, I'll sacrifice a secure retirement or send my kids to a cheaper college to help pay for health care for all", then it's just not going to happen. The middle class is paying for too much as it is...far, FAR more than their fair share.

    I agree it's the "right thing to do". I've wrestled with this issue for the past few years, it's impossible for me to say, "only certain people deserve health care".

    Just don't tell middle-class Americans "we're going to tax your company paid health insurance as a means of paying for this system". But when we do this, we need to expand the number of facilities because those who have had health care all along shouldn't have the quality of their care lessen at all. It shouldn't be any more difficult for them to get the same level of service they've always gotten.

    Is it un-American to be against health care for all? I don't think so. Last I looked, we all have a right to our opinions.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  13. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Should the doctors, nurses and other caregivers be able to pay for their houses if they treat your cancer or are they expected to volunteer? How about the workers at the company that creates the chemotherapy drugs, the radiology equipment, etc?

    The way I see it there are two paradigms: the single-payer system where no one goes bankrupt but less care is available (i.e. you might die) or a system like ours where you are more likely to survive disease or injury but might be bankrupt. I'd rather be bankrupt.

    No, and there is no reason that they should. Every hospital budgets for those that cannot pay for their care. As has been discussed on here before, emergency rooms take everyone. If you are truly indigent you can get Medicaid.

    You'll have to do something about human incompetence as well as greed. But no, I don't think greed should cause suffering but it definitely does. If you go to a single-payer system are you promising an end to suffering?

    You say "we". What are you doing to take care of them now?

    Thanks, China!

    Umm, as another thread points out, half the country pays no taxes so it is hard to give them a tax break.

    Sign me up for ending foreign aid. What do you think about the program that Bush started for AIDS prevention and treatment in Africa. Do you want to cut that off as well?

    Corporate welfare is right out.


    Is health care yours or mine to give? Who is "giving" it exactly?

    Not following you here. Can you rephrase the bolded portion?

    The problem is the mismatch between what people will say they can afford and the amount of money needed to pay sound wages and sound benefits for health care providers (as you stated above).

    The root of the problem in my mind is that costs are spiraling because the natural feedback loops that exist in any market are missing. Think about any "transaction" in health care: the patient selects a provider, the provider delivers the care and bills the insurance company, the insurance company pays the provider, the patient's company pays the insurance company. The patient does not know nor care what the cost of the service is as their co-pay is the same no matter which provider they see. The providers have little leverage to negotiate the prices, as they must accept the rate schedule if they want to have patients with coverage. The insurance company not only must negotiate with the company but must get approval from state insurance boards in order to set their rates.

    If you look at areas that are not covered by insurance like corrective-vision surgery that people pay out of pocket the prices have been going down. Why is that?

    In order to figure out how to cover everyone we need to fix the cost structure. Otherwise it is either one big blank check or you will need to live with less care being available.
  14. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It isn't Obamacare I don't like it's the scumsucking, vile, drunken, philandering, crooked, lying bastard politicians that put it together.


    :bricks:
  16. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

  17. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    The left is so ironic here. In hospitals, the bulk of the expense is in salaries and wages. Who drives up salaries and wages? Unionized nurses and hospital workers. And yet we can't touch the unions... oh no...
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Well, that might make sense - except for the fact that only 17% of US hospital employees are unionized.


    Although some hospitals have unions, the healthcare industry is not heavily unionized. In 2008, 17 percent of workers in hospitals were members of unions or covered by union contracts, while all other healthcare sectors had rates below the 14 percent average for all industries.

    Healthcare
  19. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Check out Massachusetts.
  20. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    I did.

    I believe Mass is around 14% unionized and has some of the highest rated Hospitals in the Country. Mass General, Brigham and Women's, etc.

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