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The Government spends WAY to much... yet nothing gets done.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by fleabassist1, Dec 1, 2007.

  1. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    We are taxed way to much:
    Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2007 were $2.4 trillion.

    * $1.1 trillion - Individual income tax
    * $884.1 billion - Social Security and other payroll taxes
    * $260.6 billion - Corporate income tax
    * $74.6 billion - Excise taxes
    * $28.1 billion - Customs duties
    * $23.7 billion - Estate and gift taxes
    * $48.4 billion - Other
    The IRS estimated that there were about $345 billion in uncollected taxes.


    The President's actual budget for 2007 totals $2.8 trillion. Percentages in parentheses indicate percentage change compared to 2006. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:

    * $586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
    * $548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
    * $394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
    * $367.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
    * $276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
    * $243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt
    * $89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
    * $76.9 billion (+8.1%) - Transportation
    * $72.6 billion (+5.8%) - Veterans' benefits
    * $43.5 billion (+9.2%) - Administration of justice
    * $33.1 billion (+5.7%) - Natural resources and environment
    * $32.5 billion (+15.4%) - Foreign affairs
    * $27.0 billion (+3.7%) - Agriculture
    * $26.8 billion (+28.7%) - Community and regional development
    * $25.0 billion (+4.0%) - Science and technology
    * $23.5 billion (+0.0%) - Energy
    * $20.1 billion (+11.4%) - General government

    Well, at least we are winning the war in Iraq:
    Total requested Dod/WoT spending is $699 billion, or 65% of total net Discretionary spending.


    EDIT: Forgot to put source - Wikipedia and IRS return.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    gosh, that "interest on debt" category sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it? totally unnecessary, and largely Boy King's doing...

    i believe the costs of gluttonous contracts by private, bumbling companies and billed to the Pentagon is grossly underestimated in those figures... grossly..

    Iraq is costing $1.5-1.8 trillion... don't be fooled...

    lastly... it's not a "war" in Iraq, it's an occupation... and you don't "win" an occupation...
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Instead of doing it this way may be more understandable if they did it by funcitioning, i.e. defense, homeland security, medicare, veteran's affairs etc. .. may get a clearer picture, I suspect that defense and homeland security are higher than one might think.. some of their expenditures are mixed in several categories. For example, should defense spending and care of veteran's be in the same category?
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    $43.5 billion (+9.2%) - Administration of justice
    $32.5 billion (+15.4%) - Foreign affairs
    $20.1 billion (+11.4%) - General government
    $96.1 billion (+12%) - Total governmental bureaucracy

    $548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
    $72.6 billion (+5.8%) - Veterans' benefits
    $621.4 billion (+7.4%) – Total military

    $243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt

    $33.1 billion (+5.7%) - Natural resources and environment
    $26.8 billion (+28.7%) - Community and regional development
    $25.0 billion (+4.0%) - Science and technology
    $23.5 billion (+0.0%) – Energy
    $27.0 billion (+3.7%) – Agriculture
    $212.3 billion (+10.4%) Total infrastructure and R&D

    $394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
    $367.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
    $276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
    $89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
    $586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
    $1.7143 trillion (+5.12) – Total purely social programs

    note the largest increase % is interest on debt.

    You're right, though. Homeland security gets buried in general government and a lot of military research gets buried in science and technology and foreign affairs. It's not a good breakdown.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How can one tell if any of those numbers show waste? There probably is some waste, but without context and far greater details, those numbers mean nothing. If I said to you my household spends $5000/year on entertainment would that mean anything? You'd have to know the size of my household, what's I include in entertainment, how much I earn, even what I spend it on for it to have any meeting. Those numbers create a very superficial argument.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Actually I'm surprised to see that social programs are almost three times defense.

    A good start for me would be :

    - Immediately start means testing for social security. Incrementally based on net worth you get it from 100% rolling down to 0%. Make it an old age welfare system not a retirement system. Use the money that's no longer paid out to pay down the debt, I think we could hit it fairly hard. Once the debt is gone, or more manageable, then the SS tax can be reduced. I know some will say "well that wasn't the deal" - too bad; if we're looking for ways to cut spending we have to cut it somewhere. I've paid in for 18 years and would get a cut when I retire but that's OK.

    Obviously there's other stuff I would do; largely making a lot more stuff for states not the feds, that would reduce those horrendous earmarks which are relatively small but still money. There should be a much more limited amount of stuff the feds pay for.

    But the SS thing is the biggie to me that could really make a difference. And, yes, I'd reduce defense by getting the hell out of foreign countries. If they want to blow each other and their neighbors up - so be it.
  7. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    Whats wrong with combining medical care and social security? You pay into it every pay check and if you get hurt then theres your medical. If you don't get hurt then when you retire you get your money back. That way the money we spend goes to use and everyone has medical care.

    As far as letting other countries blow themselves up... that wouldn't be good for us at all - we don't mine our own oil so we gotta get it somehow :bricks:
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, are you saying this "medical care" I'm now paying into would replace the health insurance I currently pay ? And if it's paying for everyone's medical care, I'm not getting any unused money back, the rising population would see to that.

    Yes, I would still hang out in some areas until we have an alternate fuel; which is another thing I would put mega bucks into - I would even vote for a tax increase :eek: if it were SOLELY to get an alternative fuel solution within the next 10 years.
  9. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    No - it would be a single payer system. you pay for your own. The social security money you already pay for right now would replace your medical system you pay for right now and any unused money in your "Social Security/Medical care" would be social security when you retire. It would OBVIOUSLY have to be tweaked a bit but its just a random idea.

    And why not just pull out all together and mine our own oil until we have alternative fuels?
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm in favor of giving LESS to the government, not more, and handling situations as they arise myself. A lesser amount could be donated as welfare for those who are incapable of handling their own lives.

    I'd do it if we could. Anwar is said to give us a year+. We probably have a bunch off the coasts where we aren't allowing ourselves to drill. I'd love to cut off all foreign oil if we had a 5 year supply - thereby putting a timetable on when we have to find a solution.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So for everyone who wants cuts - what would you propose to cut that would affect you, personally ? Or do you just want other stuff to get cut ?

    I've already suggested Social Security Means Testing. That would hit me when I retire. It would also hit my inheritance as it would hit my parents who would then need to start spending my inheritance ;) Social Security isn't helping my parents maintain a decent retirement - it's preserving my inheritance as my parents don't need to spend their own money.

    I'll also propose a 10% across the board cut for Civilian Federal Employees + zero bonus/salary increase for topped out Federal Employees other than cost of living that's tied to the inflation rate. I am a Civilian Federal Employee (whose product is actively used every day, believe it or not I'm actually a needed Federal Employee ;)) and I would take this if everyone else did and if lots of other cuts were made too.

    You ? And don't start slashing stuff that doesn't affect you.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Patter's doesn't think there's waste in here. :rofl: I'm not sure I've ever quite met a person with such as Patters. You are unique buddy! :D

    I'll say this, WTF? Look at how much was stolen from people's paychecks. Look at all the money we piss at new planes and nuclear submarines. As bad as that is, it's dwarfed by the social programs by almost 3-1. Of course, just when you think our government couldn't be any more draining on the tax payer than it already is, you come to the biggest issue of all. That this massive rapage ISN'T EVEN ENOUGH. The government can't even pay it's bills with $2.4 Trillion!!!!!

    We are so broken. :mad:
  13. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I had to hold back the rolling on the ground smiley :p

    Yeah... we are taxed out of the @$$ and it's not enough. What does that tell you about our leadership :rolleyes:
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    In 7.5 years, if the rate of increase that we pay on our debt interest keeps up, we will have, in effect, doubled our interest amount on our debt! The rest doesn't matter. Well, it matters, but it will all get worse if we continue to allow the rate of increase on the interest keep the pace it's on! Never mind the submarines, food stamps and cost for Homeland Security. Those will get worse along with the debt interest.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Stop reading such nonsense into what I wrote.

    All I'm saying is it looks to me like when conservatives see big numbers, they become drama queens. Wow, the government spends a billion dollars on such and such. Must be a lot of waste. That reasoning seems childish, unless you know what the money is supposed to be spent on. If I told you my condo fees were $400/month, it tells you next nothing about how that money is used.
  16. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    this from the gentleman who wants to "nuke the middle east"

    .... i suppose that's one way to "reduce defense"... pull out and vaporize them with ICBMs we've paid for that are only going to waste... :rolleyes:

    too bad the global economy would collapse if a single city anywhere on the globe experienced a nuclear explosion...
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I understand the "principle" of what your saying. Logically speaking, it's sound. However, if you told me $400, sure. In this case, it's like you tell me they're $999,999.00. I don't care where the F$%^ you live, but when I see figures like that, and hundreds of billion in INTEREST, it's filled with waste.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Not just nuke them PC, but nuke them and flash them the finger at the same time baby! :rocker:

    [​IMG]

    Im kidding people. :D
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well what I want to happen with respect to that isn't going to happen is it ? A realistic alternative is to let them do it to themselves.
  20. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    George Bush will go down as one of the greatest democrats in USA history. Did I just say democrat? Or perhaps I just meant confused liberal :p .

    Either way ... Bush realized early on that by inflating government through spending and printing $$$ he could quickly gain control of the immoral majority on Capitol Hill. I mean what they say to the media and what they do behind closed doors is not always the same ... right?

    Below is just one link of which there are many on the topic. I wrote a thread on this around the same time and I was told by the then board liberals how wrong I was ... yeah ... sometimes wrong = right ... or is it left of right but right of the left ... like perhaps the middle of a black hole.

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2007

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