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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by p8ryts, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. p8ryts

    p8ryts Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The morning papers still seem focused on what's wrong with the Pats. I guess I'm just a guy with rose colored glasses but I thought I saw a real good team that still has some wrinkles but they are going to smooth out fast.

    First, we have a first class running game, something we've desired and although Dillon was good in 04", this is what we have been waiting for.

    Second, the run defense seems much improved and despite the cries of losing Willie, it seems we have some strong depth there.

    Third, the offensive line may be the best we've had during our run and its very young.

    Fourth, last week people thought we had no receivers, this week it looks like we have a core of receivers that as a group should end up being better overall. Our guys have to be better than Dwight, Davis and Johnson.

    Fifth, Tight ends approaching awesome.

    Coaching looks solid as usual.

    Let's see where we are at the bye week, I'm thinking 4-1 with Cincy being the questionable game, only because its away, but that doesn't mean we can't win it.

    Let's stop being "hand wringing, petulant whiners" as described by Mike Freeman and leave that to the Media, they'll wake up and warm up to us in a couple more weeks.

    And one last thing, don't look for perfection because it's not going to happen.
    We dominated the Jets and they were lucky on two plays to get back in it. This team is a lot better than the media and some fans give it credit for.
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    There was nothing that concerned me yesterday that better tackling and Brady gaining confidence in his WR won't fix. I know that sounds overly simplistic but it's the way I see it.
     
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I've said this before, but when the team wins, I go out of my way to find ways in which they need to improve.

    When they lose I go out of my way to find some of the positive aspects.

    The reason being is that the differences between winning and losing are often so small that it doesn't make too much sense to get overly high after most wins (certainly not after these two) or too low after a loss.

    That dang weird shaped ball sure do bounce funny sometimes.

    But all that being said, this is a team experiencing growing pains. It is just not feasible to expect Brady and the offense to have achieved mid-season/Super Bowl confidence, performance and instincts, given all the new personnel - two of whom completely missed training camp.

    This offense will get better and better each week as they play and practice together more. You can already see improvement from week 1 to week 2.

    Some had expectations that Gabriel and Jackson would go into the Meadowlands without any game experience and combine for 10 catches and multiple TDs - raising that sort of unrealistic expectation is setting yourself up for disappointment.

    I was not pleased with the offense in week 1 and am still not fully pleased with the performance in week 2 - but I saw lots of improvement, and everyone is playing to my expectations.

    Troy is leading the way given his experience playing with Brady. Caldwell is chipping in on pace to have a 32 catch season - and while many expected him to do twice or 3 times that amount - since I'm not expecting much more than 30 I'm happy with what I see (especially the lack of drops)... and he too I expect will only get better.

    The main concern I have is that the Pats have been so focused on the short game that the defenses ultimately will collapse on the TEs and RBs- but every week that goes by that we get away with a win gives the offense more experience and a better shot to begin to stretch the field - so I expect in the longrun that will turn out ok as well.

    The glass is definately more than half full for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  4. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack On the Game Day Roster

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    Far be it from me to jiggle a little water out of that half-full glass, but I thought that the Patriots made a horribly arrogant coaching error. Or, maybe arrogant isn't the best word. Hubris maybe better.

    That long pass intercepted by Barrett was clearly an attempt to stomp the life out of the Jets, when the CORRECT strategy would have been to slowly bleed us out by ripping off six-yard chunks on the ground. I heard the radio dude say, "Well, it's just like a punt." But, it wasn't. It was at a time in the game when the crowd was DYING for something to bring them back into it. Watch the tape of the game - there were empty seats. People had left the stadium. That interception, as much as anything, made this game close.

    Hubris. Bill Belichick wanted to stab the life out of Eric Mangini and the Jets, and it came back to bite him in the *****.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  5. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    Or maybe it was because the guy was open.

    The Jets were playing the run, and NE is never one to just run, run, run, punt when protecting a lead. Even after the int, NY still needed to go 82 yards which is likely how far they would have had to go after the punt that your strategy would have led to.
     
  6. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack On the Game Day Roster

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    How silly of me. He MUST have been open. Patriots must not have appreciated that we have Criss Angel in our defensive backfield, appearing out of thin air, snatching passes away with no warning.

    Not only was he covered; he was DOUBLE covered. And your punt-lite strategy does nothing whatsoever to help your clock problem - that you still had to play for another quarter of football with shifting momentum.

    Wrong call every day of the week, except MAYBE in one instance: If you had a receiver that you couldn't overthrow, like that waste of space Bethel Johnson, then it's no-risk play.
     
  7. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Oswlek, I was very lucky to have killer seats in section 311, first row, of the upper deck on the 47 yard line yesterday and saw that play from a very good vantage point.

    That was a wild heave into double coverage on Gabriel. After the game, the guys on 1050 AM in NY said that Gabriel had beaten the coverage (true) but that Brady isn't used to Gabriel's outstanding speed and Tom's initial pump fake was just enough time for Gabriel to outrun Brady's range on that throw. I'm not sure about that, but I do know it was an underthrown bloop throw that looked like an end of game Hail Mary. It was ill-advised and the timing could not have been worse. The Pats let the Jets back into that game.

    Brady seems to be distracted. That play, in particular, was Bledsoe-esque as were some of his reads in the Buffalo game. The reasons are obvious and it will take time for him and the new WR's to get on the same page, however, some of his worst over/under throws the past two weeks have been a couple of BADLY mis-thrown outs to Troy Brown and two VERY bad misthrows to Dan Graham last week. Those are two guys with whom he should be in synch.
     
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    Just because there are two guys in the play when the ball gets there doesn't mean the WR wasn't open. It could mean that the QB waited too long, lofted the ball too highly or underthrew it a bit, probably a couple other things as well.

    Do I agree with the play call? No. In hindsight, would I rather have run three times and punted? Of course, more time off and less of an emotional bump. But it wasn't nearly as bad as you seem to think.

    I agree with this. Even in my Optimist thread, I mentioned that this game and the Buffalo game would both have been among the worst games by Brady in 2003 and 2004. I think Brady could have played better, even on the play in question. But I also think that Sundayjack is far overestimating the importance of that play and the underlying emotions/thoughts/principles behind it.
     
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I respectfully disagree. That stadium became electric after that interception. Even after the first Jets TD, their fans were filing out. When Brady heaved that INT, folks were were rushing back to their seats in our row and all over the stadium.

    Those New Yorkers had just seen on TV or heard on their radios the Giants come back from a 24-7 deficit in the 4th quarter just a few hours before on the road against the Eagles.

    The Jets O was a house afire after that turnover. Until that point they had an ineffective day with one freaky/great play by Crotchery. So much of football is psychological.

    My friends and I were ticked off with that play call. It was unnecessary and really upped the ante in the game.
     
  10. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Does Brady seem distracted? Yes.

    Is this fixable? Most definitely!

    Brady does not, at the moment, seem comfortable with his receiving corps. He has a lot of new pieces to work with. Further, he's digesting what is in essence a new offense from the coaches, and he seems a little put off by that, too.

    But with the passage of a little time, like say between games 6 and 10, he will have a much greater appreciation for what he has there on the field, and he will not only realize these are the most potent weapons he's ever had to work with, but will fully exploit them, too.

    Until such time, the two pillars that will basically support this team will be the defense and the running game. So I'm not all that worried about the team. But as the offense becomes more and more comfortable within itself, and all the pieces start to mesh together, perhaps the rest of the league ought to be the ones that worry about this team.

    I like this team as it's construed, and I like it's future!
     
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Well put, PF. That's the best part of the whole deal. While the national media and fans don't seem to get it, we can see exactly what is going on here.

    This Offense, right now, is like Jello before going into the fridge. You just know it'll all come together.
     
  12. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack On the Game Day Roster

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    Yeah, and there's NOTHING Jets fans hate worse when the back page gets split with "Giants Rule/Jets Suck" headlines on Monday morning. There were empty seats at the time. People had actually left the stadium. Jets fans were BEGGING for something to signal hope. It was the first home game of the year. A confluence of things all said 'wrong play-wrong time.'
     
  13. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    OK, I guess I was wrong. I still don't think you could call the Jets' O a "house afire" though. Coles' TD was just a slant pass gone horribly wrong and the only other drives consisted of a few short passes. Yes, the line stepped up and the pass pro got better, but a house afire it certainly wasn't.
     
  14. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    17 unanswered points in a 16 minute span against a good D like the Pats. Yup, for that period of time, that house was alight.
     
  15. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    In summary, we have an unbeaten Team that has yet to organize its passing game. But it has great tools to do so. One, Brady at QB and second, four talented WRs, third spectacular TEs and fourth, a fearsome running game.

    By the latter postion of the season the REST Of the League, BEWARE!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2006
  16. QB12

    QB12 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    I agree with this 100%

    QB12
     
  17. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It did? Scoreboard says hi.
     
  18. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Eh. I really think you're overselling this. It was perhaps a little risky, but to pin this totally on Belichick and his "hubris" is silly. It was a poor decision by arguably the NFL's best decision-maker. This one's on Brady, not BB.

    Would I have preferred to keep running the ball (at will) against the jets' beaten, uncoordinated front? I guess. Would that have been a savvier strategy? Probably. But should we NOT try to stretch the field? Is Belichick to blame b/c Brady made a mistake and Gabriel made no effort to rectify it?
     
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    The offense isn't what it will be.

    I think we're all just upset because we want to see the offense to run on all cylinders b/c we're excited by its possibilities. I know at some point in this season, things will click and we will have one of the best offenses in the NFL to go with one of the best defenses.

    It's only a matter of time, but admittedly, we'd all rather see it now b/c we're fans.
     
  20. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack On the Game Day Roster

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    I see where you needed two separate posts, both agreeing and disagreeing with me, as you did. :)

    And, all that makes perfect sense but for that pesky little fact that stretching the field clearly wasn't the goal with that play. You're up 24-7 in the third quarter, and you've moved the ball pretty well all game to that point. What on earth would you hope to accomplish by stretching the field?

    No, that play was all about stomping out the Jets with one throw. We know now that it backfired and helped bring them back into the game.

    Saying I'm wrong is easy - occasionally, I miss one. Just not this time.
     

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