The Front Seven - 2009 and 2010 as of now

[Patriot Missile]

Regardless, there are a lot of what if's across the front 7. I'm glad they added more players but there has to be guys that step up. Crable,McKenzie,Spikes,Cunningham and Warren etc. So much uncertainty that it makes it really hard to evaluate how good this defense is going to be without seeing them with our own eyes in the camps and preseason.

I feel fine with our 2ndary. Best I've felt in years actually. But for them to be dominant is going to be what happens up front, and for right now there are too many question marks of who is playing where and what the roles will be. This is definately going to be a wait and see approach. I would say development and health are my two primary concerns right now.

 

[Ring 6]

A) I presume that we are fine with the 2009 production and reps from Banta-Cain and Woods.

B) You say that ANYONE would be better than Burgess and Thomas as they performed last year. Perhaps you are correct. We'll test that assumption by playing Ninkovich and Crable in place of Thomas, Burgess, with Cunningham getting some reps as he learns our defense.

Burgess (57.3%) replacement - Ninkovich
Thomas (54.1%) replacewment - Crable
Ninkovich (12.4%) replacement - Cunningham

C) We've been warned for years not to expect too much from a rookie patriot linebacker. I agree with you that Cunningham should be expected to play as much as Ninkovich did last year. Who was the last patriot rookie linebacker to paly that much on the regular defence? Bruschi?

D) We are counting on Ninkovich for major reps, and he will get them. But please recall that he that he was on the bench while Thomas and Burgess got the reps last year. He is NOT better than they are. And are we really counting on Crable to be better than Thomas?

E) So, my bottom line is that I think that we are worse off with this year's group, as of now.

E) And I am NOT pessimistic about the defense at all. We have two very weak positions: OLB and DE/OLB. We have lots of strong positions.

F) I do NOT expect Belichick to ignore this one weakness over the next two months as we get ready for Training Camp. There aren't many personnel priorities for the next tow months.

1) an extension for Mankins,
2) an extension for Brady,
3) bring the usual set of veteran JAG's as camp fodder and as insurance against to many injuries,
4) review free agent lists, cuts, and trade possibilities for a DE/OLB or/and an OLB and
5) review cuts by other teams for a possible running back upgrade.

How are we worse at OLB?

OK.
Another approach:
-TBC plays more.
-Cunnigham can play 50% of the snaps (the answer to your question btw is not Bruschi but Mayo AND Guyton)
-Crable adds something
-The portion of Thomas 51% that was in sub packages as a cover guy is taken by an ILB say Guyton
-Nincovich, Woods, Davis play a little more in specific roles
-We may still sign players

My point was we are lacking, essentially, Thomas in the base and Burgess in the sub. Really that totals one complete OLB who rushes in the sub D.
You will have a hard time convincing me that the winner of the battle to play on 3rd down between Cunningham, Crable, Ninkovich and Burgess if he is resigned will be worse than Burgess was.
You will have a hard time convincing me that the winner of the battle to play OLB in the base between Cunningham, Woods, Crable, and maybe Guyton will be worse that Thomas was last year.

Mine is not a ringing endorsement of the OLB situation, but an assessment that the play we got out of the 2 guys who shared the spot (Thomas in base, Burgess in sub) will not be very diffiuclt to improve upon, and I don't know how it could be worse.

 

[Ring 6]

Neither did Weathers. I did. Guyton is 6'3", same as Colvin. See links below.

Well, that is a bit overstated. Barry Sanders was way too small to be a RB, and Drew Brees and Doug Flutie were way too short to be QBs.

I would say, if you don't have the physical makeup, you are less likely to be able to execute at a high-level.

Guyton is listed at 6'3"
Gary Guyton
the same as Rosie Colvin
Rosevelt Colvin

so to say he CAN'T execute at a high level isn't right. Whatever will keep Guyton from being special, it is not height.

Its the 245 thats the issue not the 6'2 or 6'3
Thats small for what we ask OLBs to do, but there are plenty of teams that use guys that snall and smaller to rush the passer.
What role Guyton ends up with will be an interesting development this season, because I think he is a quality player who can help us in some way. I just dont think that way is 3-4 starting ILB

 

[RobertWeathers]

Neither did Weathers. I did. Guyton is 6'3", same as Colvin. See links below.

Well, that is a bit overstated. Barry Sanders was way too small to be a RB, and Drew Brees and Doug Flutie were way too short to be QBs.

I would say, if you don't have the physical makeup, you are less likely to be able to execute at a high-level.

Guyton is listed at 6'3"
Gary Guyton
the same as Rosie Colvin
Rosevelt Colvin

so to say he CAN'T execute at a high level isn't right. Whatever will keep Guyton from being special, it is not height.

I did look it up. I don't pull things out of the air to make a point.

NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Gary Guyton

Height is a part of the equation-not all of it.

Colvin played close to 250 but with much more burst, leverage and power. Guyton lacks in all 3.

 

[cstjohn17]

E) So, my bottom line is that I think that we are worse off with this year's group, as of now.

E) And I am NOT pessimistic about the defense at all. We have two very weak positions: OLB and DE/OLB. We have lots of strong positions.

Team defense anyone? Looking collectively I hope the group is better than the sum of its parts. outside of Wilfork there are no difference makers or players that opponents must scheme against. It will come down to execution and ability to adapt, in years past the defense was very good at adapting to specific opponents / situations. If these young kids can learn on the fly the hope would be that they peak as the playoffs begin and hope the offense can score.

DL - grade = B
- Wilfork, Warren superior
- rest are really just JAGs with some ability to play situationally

ILB - B+
- a lot of talent and versatility

OLB - C
- pretty much the weakest group of 3-4 OLBs in the league
- a lot depends on youth development

Safety - B+
- good talent and depth

Cornerback - B+
- good talent and depth

 

[Ring 6]

Team defense anyone? Looking collectively I hope the group is better than the sum of its parts. outside of Wilfork there are no difference makers or players that opponents must scheme against. It will come down to execution and ability to adapt, in years past the defense was very good at adapting to specific opponents / situations. If these young kids can learn on the fly the hope would be that they peak as the playoffs begin and hope the offense can score.

DL - grade = B
- Wilfork, Warren superior
- rest are really just JAGs with some ability to play situationally

ILB - B+
- a lot of talent and versatility

OLB - C
- pretty much the weakest group of 3-4 OLBs in the league
- a lot depends on youth development

Safety - B+
- good talent and depth

Cornerback - B+
- good talent and depth

The quoted part was not posted by me.
And yes, there is no doubt that the quality of play by the 2 OLBs will be heavily affected by the quality of the other 9 guys on the field.

 

[mgteich]

So your position is that if Ninkovich and Woods win these battles we would better off than in 2009? Will they be better than in 2010 when they lost this competition for reps to the players they are now replacing?

No, the reality is that we have a great hope in Cunningham and a prayer in Crable. Otherwise, we need the OLB's to look better because other positions make them look better.

In any case, I expect that Belichick understands the situation very well, and will make the appropriate addition.
===========================
My point was we are lacking, essentially, Thomas in the base and Burgess in the sub.

Really that totals one complete OLB who rushes in the sub D.
You will have a hard time convincing me that the winner of the battle to play on 3rd down between Cunningham, Crable, Ninkovich and Burgess if he is resigned will be worse than Burgess was.
You will have a hard time convincing me that the winner of the battle to play OLB in the base between Cunningham, Woods, Crable, and maybe Guyton will be worse that Thomas was last year.

Mine is not a ringing endorsement of the OLB situation, but an assessment that the play we got out of the 2 guys who shared the spot (Thomas in base, Burgess in sub) will not be very diffiuclt to improve upon, and I don't know how it could be worse.[/QUOTE]