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The final verdict: Coaching Lost the Big Game

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MrBigglesWorth, Feb 10, 2008.

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  1. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I have seen alot of threads "don't blame the defense", "don't blame the offense".

    The final verdict is coaching blew this game for not managing it 100% correctly and not making adjustments. They coached about 98% correctly but the Giants coached 100% correctly.

    1. The Pats never made adjustments like they did in the San Diego game. This was clearly illistrated in the second half.

    Why don't you milk Welker if no one could keep up with him? He should ahve had 20 catches.

    You have a red hot Maroney and you choose to run 16 times and pass 48. I saw very little max protect.

    Kyle Brady singled up on Osi? Kaczur singled up on Strahan?

    2. 4th and 13.... no need to mention. been stated in previous threads.

    3. The last defensive play bring the house. Again no need to tallk about.



    Coaching had a B+ day again a Giants coaching staff that had an A+ day.
     
  2. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    What exactly did the coaches do with the week off?
     
  3. Rocky

    Rocky On the Roster

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    [/QUOTE]Coaching had a B+ day again a Giants coaching staff that had an A+ day.[/QUOTE]

    Agree with the Giants coaching being perfect, however, giving the Pats coaches a B+ is very generous.

    1)Very few, if any draw plays were called. When you have a defense whose ends are in the backfield right off of the snap, draws need to be called to keep the defense honest. Or middle screens.

    2)The vertical pass patterns were bad calls. There just wasn't enough time to execute them. More quick passes were needed, maybe more 5 wide...pick apart their secondary, go to the hurry up in order to wear out the D-Line. We saw a little of it on the last drive.

    3)Gave up on the run in the second half. Given the pounding Brady was taking, why not give him some rest and play smashmouth like against SD? They weren't moving the ball through the air anyhow, so it wouldn't have hurt to try.

    4)Horrible defensive call on the Plax TD.

    5)The play calling on the last drive was bad too. 35 seconds with 3 TO's does not mean they needed to just chuck the ball way down the field. They could have used Faulk/Welker in the middle of field and been at midfield after two plays.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2008
  4. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    The people saying that was a bad call on the Plax TD must not have watched the Patriots call all out blitzes at crucial points of games every year for the last 7.

    The Patriots always do this. Always.
     
  5. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Its a rarity when I say this but....

    Bill Belichick & staff totally sucked with the management of calls on both sides of offense and defense in that game.

    Like I said it does not happen too often but BB and his staff were outcoached and outplayed that day and the staffs playcalling and decisions sucked almost as if NEs coaching staff was the Dolphins in disguise.

    Maybe the worst gameplan in BB and staff since 2002 - and I hope not to see another any time soon and go back to the Brilliance of this staff's minds again
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2008
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So who decided you were in charge of determining the final verdict...

    I think that is best left to those who actually know what they are talking about.
     
  7. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Oh Little Mo Peep.... don't get mad. I decided I was in charge just like other decided they make the offical game thread which always baffled me as if there was an unofficial one.
     
  8. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think 2 things stand out which makes the OPs opinion a legitamate beef is the decision of the 4th and 13 and the blitz at the end which resulted of the winnig TD by leaving an erratic Hobbs one of one with the best receiver the Giants have - those 2 were not too smart IMO
     
  9. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree MO.....Although there are things I do not understand..and wish I could. The touchdown pass with Hobbs on Burress? Did they not think he needed help? The last drive and going for the big bomb; too much time taken up and a lesser chance of success. And the 4th and 13..not only no field goa attempt, nut a long pass instead of a shorter one for a first down. I wish I knew the answers to these..as to why. I'm not at all callig for the coaches' heads...not even blaming them FOR the result..as I think there were OTHER things as well..but I do wonder. players, coaches all had an off day. AND the Giants played great did the things they had to to win. and I agree it is up to those that KNOW what they are talking about...
     
  10. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    We may be finding out how much Romeo Crenell and Charlie Weis

    were worth to the Pats.
     
  11. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

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    On which of Maroney's 14 carries for 36 yards did you decide it was necessary to give him the ball 10 more times? I'm not blaming Maroney but there was no room to run.
     
  12. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    While I question some of the decisions...I hardly think it is anything CLOSE to any final verdict...Asante picks off the pass...Manning is sacked..Tyree drops the ball...the Pats win..then what??? It's a silly thread...coaching, offense defense, special teams..they all contributed to the loss...NOT one area...
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm with Pats726. Forget the sack, if Manning just throws it away or stupid Tyree doesn't make a 1 in 100 catch, it's 4th and 10 and we probably win. Sure, I'd have tried the FG; but most of the loss was just players not making plays.
     
  14. homerpatsfan

    homerpatsfan Practice Squad Player

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    time to move on !

    it's over,we were beat by a good team. just let our guard down,too much hype. let it go, i'm tryin:confused:
     
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Or this may just be a very painful example of what happens when players don't just do their job.

    Nobody is perfect, you never call a perfect game, players make mistakes. Absent game film the best you fan do is take an educated guess at who screwed up worse when and why. If in fact you are even remotely qualified to, and most of those posting on a message board are not.

    A couple of posters have given us some decent insight. Adjustments were made and still not executed. Some here simply didn't see them, apparently. TE's were brought in and they got run over too...Shotgun? 70% of the snaps, hurry up offense - netted one TD and 1 strip sack.

    Other adjustments (like draws) were not indicated because of what was happening with our Oline allowing not only pressure from the edges but up the middle. Screens were sniffed out, Maroney was getting met in the backfield, even on slants there was little or no YAC because the Giants had 6 and 7 in coverage. Those who wanted 5 wide apparently wanted Brady dead. THE PRESSURE WAS CONSISTENTLY COMING FROM 4 ON 5.

    Belichick chose to go for it on 4th and 13...perhaps that speaks volumes to his faith in his kicker or his disbelief at the way his offense was performing. Had he kicked it and missed you'd all be looking to hang Gotti now and screaming that BB should have gone for it. The defense stopped the run cold and then shifted to pressuring Eli. That was a sound plan based on our last matchup , only the pressure came up just short (and Eli had something to do with that). They shut him down for 2 and a half quarters and then couldn't quite make a play or catch a break. The Defense was the same one we've played for three years. When they execute and make plays, it's fine. When they don't, it isn't.

    In the end what killed us was the most prolific offense in NFL history not showing up against a 4-3 defense with excellent talent up front and not much beyond that but the sheer force of will to win. And a defense predicated on playmakers making plays unable to make them.

    We scored fine early before they were dialed in, and late when they were gassed. In between we got biatch slapped across the LOS and couldn't quite make the big plays on defense. That was the game. Randy said it best, we didn't match their intensity. Intensity is an intangible, you can't coach it - guys either show up to play or they don't, and enough of ours didn't so we lost.

    Want to criticize coaching for not realizing their players weren't going to show up to play, I guess you can. But there wasn't anything they could do about it at that juncture. Some of what happened may be talent related, and they can't do anything about that until this offseason. We'll see what they believe they need to do.

    But to chock a loss like this up to we shoulda done...something else, cause that absolutely would have worked...is just mindless venting.
     
  16. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I don't think we implemented screens or something to make them pay for overcommitting early enough. The only screen I remember in the first half was one to Stallworth for a first down when Welker crushed Stallworth's man. However, once the giants were convinced they could get pressure with 4 and 5 every play they didn't have to overcommit. There was no need to blitz which makes screens irrelevant. That also made draw plays or any sort of run play irrelevant as LBs cherry pick those. The early playcalling was one dimensional which was troubling, but if your line doesn't block you're screwed. I also think we could have gone for someone across the middle instead of heaving prayers because Moss was drawing 2 and three guys with stallworth on the other side. Welker across the middle on the first play would have been nice. All we needed was a field goal, but again you need blocking.
     
  17. Rob0729

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    I think the final verdict is the players need to execute better. If I was to assign blame for this game, it would go as follows:

    1.) Poor o-line play (no matter how people want to throw this on McDaniels, even in max protection the Pats were just outmuscled by the Giants)
    2.) Missed opportunities on the final drive (two dropped interceptions and a sack that they couldn't close the deal on)
    3A.) Brady's inaccuracies (he missed a wide open Moss at least twice for long TDs).
    3B.) Coaching mistakes

    I still think this game comes down to execution, not as much scheming. I definitely think the losses the previous two years came down to the players on the field (we lost to Denver because we turned over the ball five times with two on returns and we lost to Indy because we ran out of quality healthy bodies at ILB and safety). The coaching staff made their mistakes, but so did Weis and Crennel in the past, I think the experience and quality of the players were better.

    People have a selective memory. In the 2002 AFC Championship game, 14 of our 24 points came on special teams when we won 24-17. How was that Weis or Crennel?

    In the division round of the 2003 season, the Titans were driving for either the game winning or tying score and the players actually executed when they had to.

    In the Super Bowl vs. Carolina, we gave up 387 yards and allowed the Panthers to score a field goal in two plays with 12 seconds left in the half and 19 points in the fourth quarter. We also had to punt 5 times in that game.

    In the Super Bowl vs. Philly, we let them get 369 yards and convert over 50% of their third downs. We had six three and outs and one four and out on 12 drives in that game in that game. So more than half of our offensive drives went nowhere. The one of the things that slowed the Eagles offense in the fourth quarter was themselves.

    Go back and look at the game. Neither Weis or Crennel called perfect games. In fact, you can point to times where they had bad games like Weis had in the Super Bowl vs. the Eagles. People just by into the legend of these guys. They were great coordinators who had players who execute when they needed to. I think the execution is missing more than the coaching although there have been some deficencies in coaching.
     
  18. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    Or better yet, not preparing their players to play at the level they needed for a Super Bowl. I think the coaching job, from pre-game prep to in-game adjustments, to situational decision-making, was just very sloppy (especially on the offensive side) and it showed, because there was no way the Giants should have been in the position to win, not after scoring only 3 points through 3 quarters.
     
  19. Hardboiled

    Hardboiled Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Actually, what bothers me about that play is that we could have punted. BB says he didn't want to give up 7 yards in field position. If 7 yards is so important, give the Giants worse and punt. I can see going for it on 4th and 5, but not a 4th and 13.

    Your quoting Moss about intensity is interesting. Listening to (streaming) radio, it was noted that this team was more relaxed and laid back than previous SB teams. Only 7 points in over 3 and half quarters. It seemed our last scoring drive only happened because suddenly we were behind.
     
  20. PF1996

    PF1996 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Watch the game again or even look at the play by play on ESPN. Maroney ran well when he was given a fair opportunity (i.e. the Pats weren't lined up in an obvious running formation). The more times you watch the game, the more obvious the coaching problems. Even though Maroney ran well in the first half, there were NO playaction plays called. The most egregious was when Maroney picked up 8 yards on the Pats 2nd to last first half possession. The Pats then lined up in a formation that screamed (we're going to run) and then...proceeded to run. That was a perfect time (successful run by Maroney, 2nd and short, running formation, near midfield) for a playaction. The Pats then lined up in the SAME formation and ran the SAME running play again, that had just been unsuccessful. Again, great time for a playaction or a rollout for Brady. There was an arrogance to the Pats playcalling that seemed to suggest that they were more interested in proving that they couldn't be stopped from "doing what they do", rather than simply adjusting so that their players were in the best possible position to keep executing. There were at least 2-3 drives in which the Pats were moving the ball by throwing to Maroney, throwing quick to Faulk, etc. and then they would go back to trying to hit a long one on a 1st/10. If the OL isn't performing well, stick with what's moving the chains. Don't self-destruct by trying to throw deep on first down.


    People think more highly of Weis and Crennel in part because of the lack of talent that they had under them compared to what the Pats have today. Our D played much better in 2004 with scrubs/young players manning the secondary. Our O, with fewer talented players, adjusted and executed much better against better defenses. Both Carolina and Philly had better overall defenses than the Giants one dimensional defense, yet a Pats team with inferior offenses to the 2007 version scored more than 14 pts against those teams.

    I don't think the Pats had much respect for the Giants defense and it showed in how they played. There was an element of "we can score if we need to" so let's just "do what we planned to do" and go deep to Moss even if doing so is unnecessary and is killing our drives. I really wish the Packers had won the NFCCG.
     
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