Welcome to PatsFans.com

The fabricated Lincoln quote strikes again

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    there was a certain poster here who refused to retract the exact same quote... are we seeing a new Con man tactic?... "Absorb fabricated material and insist it's true?"... Oh wait, that's an old tactic...

    Watch the jackass here, on YouTube, where millions of Americans can witness Con man agenda, wrapped in stupidity

    Young Will Not Retract Fabricated Lincoln Quote

    During yesterday’s House debate on Iraq, Rep. Don Young (R-AK) made the case for escalation by citing a fabricated quote falsely attributed to Abraham Lincoln: “Congressmen who willfully take action during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs, and should be arrested, exiled or hanged.” Watch it:

    This morning, Young’s spokeswoman Meredith Kenny told ThinkProgress repeatedly that Young does not plan to take any action to correct the record or clarify his House statement.

    Kenny said that Young had learned of the quote from Tuesday’s Washington Times op-ed by Frank Gaffney, and noted that the Times has not yet issued a correction or retraction. Kenny said she “couldn’t confirm or deny” that Young would correct his statement even if the Times published a correction.

    Kenny added that Young didn’t literally mean that those supporting the Iraq resolution should be “hanged,” merely that they should not be “undermining the morale of our military.”
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    The quote isn't Lincoln's but whoever said it was correct. :p :cool:
  3. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    4,672
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    This amuses me. Damaging soldiers' morale is treason; getting them killed is perfectly acceptable.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You don't believe that. You're too smart, you know that a bad President could start a war because he knows it's the one thing Congress couldn't rebuff him on. You know that thinking like that would be abused to silence critics. You don't want that, do you?
  5. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,280
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    That would always depend on who's damaging their morale, and which asswipe was getting them killed of course. :D
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    why does this not surprise me in the least from you?.... yeah, it's fine to execute a lawmaker against your agenda, isn't it Gen. Sutler? ...

    nevermind that this isn't a war, it's an occupation... so the rhetoric doesn't really apply...
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    and the clown Congressman won't retract... he'll just attribute it to the Washington Times, which also won't retract a known falsehood... yeah, that "damned liberal media"... :rolleyes:
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:


    Let's use Viet Nam as an example. The Tet offensive was a ,military disaster, the Viet Cong cease to be a factor. From that point forward the NVA did the fighting as Gen Giap said in his memoirs, the North wa ready to sue for peace and end the war, but the reaction by the left in this country convinced that if they hung on the US would lose by giving up. He was correct in his assessment. The result the war went on for years, thousands of additional American dies along with hundred of Thousands of Vietnamese and millions of Cambodians.


    When you falsely accuse the President of of being a liar, and actively portray the motives of your country as evil, you serve as a propaganda tool for the enemies of our country who seek to destroy us. You also give hope to the enemy that if they just hold on they will win by virtue of the US quitting.

    When Al Queda look at the feckless, disgraceful behavior of the opposition party in this country, they know that if that party is their hope for victory. They know that if they like the Vietnamese hang on the unpatriotic anti US faction in this country will hand them the victory they desire.
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    At least the last few Presidents have been liars. We deserve better from both sides, and we'd be doing ourselves a disservice if we kept quiet.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    From Sam Johnson a 29 year USAF Veteran who pent 7 yrs in the HAnoi Hilton:


    This GREAT American speaks from first hand experience.And has made the kind of sacrifices that the peole on the left who despise our military have never made.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If you think our troops are better off in Iraq and the war in Iraq should continue, then the Marine's words have meaning to you.

    If you feel our troops are worse off in Iraq and the war in Iraq should end, then the flag-draped coffins have greater meaning.
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    you're a joke... and you clearly draw no distinction between a noble defense of this great nation, and a bullying occupation of another nation ... for all your "i'm a soldier, and you're not" blather, you don't appear to have the first clue about valor, pulling on heartstrings by using a biter old soldier... because to you, when you're Commander says "let's kill," you're like a hyper dog waiting to go out and pee... you won't stop and consider the merits of war, you're simply all for it on general principle (or lackthereof)...

    this guy used the "slow bleed" mantra?... let me tell you a little something about "slow bleed"

    Slow Bleed’ Conservatives Voted Against Billions In Equipment For U.S. Troops

    http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/16/slow-bleed-smear/

    The right-wing has begun a coordinated effort to smear Iraq war critics by describing their legislative plan as a “slow-bleed strategy.”

    The phrase was first used in an article Wednesday by John Bresnahan of The Politico; within hours, the Republican National Committee issued a release falsely claiming that Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) “call their plan the ’slow-bleed strategy.’” In fact, as Bresnahan clarified in a subsequent article, “slow-bleed” was “not a term used by any Democrats or the anti-war groups supporting their efforts.”

    Nevertheless, conservatives continue to use the phrase to attack war critics. During this week’s Iraq debate, at least five members — Deborah Pryce (R-OH), Roy Blunt (R-MO), Thaddeus McCotter (R-MI), Jeb Hensarling (R-TX), and Adam Putnam (R-FL) — used the phrase on the House floor.

    If only their rhetoric matched their voting record. In October 2003, as insurgent violence in Iraq was growing and military equipment shortages were becoming increasingly problematic, Rep. David Obey (D-WI) proposed an amendment shifting $3.6 billion to pay for better equipment and other quality-of-life measures for U.S. troops. Not one of the five voted for it.

    That’s a real recipe for “slow bleed.”
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    Troops are always better off at home the question is whether the country will be better off, and how the troops being at home will affect the GWOT.

    Remember to ask the RIGHT question. ;)
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    "The right question", meaning: any question to which the answer is "Follow the leader and keep your mouth shut". You're a big believer in authority and won't question the government because that is how you were formed. It's not your fault. You are ill.
    :rocker: :bricks:
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    I queastion the gov on all sorts of issues. Because I don't follow the crowd here and buy into all the crackpot deception theories doesn't make me ill. BUt I do believe many here are gullible, naive partisans.
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I wasn't being serious when I said you were ill. It was sarcastic.
    You never question the government on the issue of war. Your reaction to matters like this is almost completely pro-war, even when discussing other wars and military action, it seems to me. Has there ever been a case when the US military was used wrongly in your opinion? If so, had you been alive at the time, wouldn't you have been hurting the troops?

    It is patriotic to question the government on EVERYthing they do, and that includes war, which should be questioned more strictly than all other functions of the government, whether it's before, during or after the war. Just because a POW in Nam is pissed-off, that still doesn't mean the anti-war movement of the 60's and 70's was wrong or un-patriotic. This isn't Nazi Germany! (There... now the Nazi comparison has been made for today)
  17. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Post of the Month, right here...
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    Questioning policy is one thing trying to undermine the troops in the field is another. That is what happened during VietNam (Which I saw first hand).

    I also react negatively to every mistake being labeled as a lie or misleading. Wars are a series of F ups cause the opponent is trying to frustrate you. IF FDR had been hammered everytime he screwed up in WW2 we never would have won.

    The GWOT isn't going to go away whether we leave Iraq or not. I think many delude themselves that if we leave Iraq and treat Al Queda as a criminal matter everything will be fine. I disagree with that position.

    We have made all sorts of mistakes Since going into Iraq. For example we should have killed Sadr in the summer of 2003 when we had a chance. But I understand as many here apparently don't that mistakes happen during wars and that hindsight is 20/20.

    At least your position is consistent Whista ( like Ron Paul's), I disagree with it because IMO it doesn't work in 21st century clash of cultures where a nuke that can kill millions can be put in a shipping container, being passive is unacceptable.

    I don't think we should have gone into Viet Anm unless we were in to win. I am not clear that the political class was ever committed to doing what it would take to win.

    I do get annoyed with people who are rooting for our guyus to lose to satisfy a political agenda.
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    As our congressman, Jim McGovern made me proud for the first time on this latest non-binding resolution. This guy's a died-in-the-wool liberal democrat but he's a man of very deep conviction with whom I disagree with on almost everything. Despite our stark differences, we know each other personally, and we like each other (disclaimer), and he showed that he had guts when he voted against the resolution of non-support because he is completely against any further action in Iraq and wants the troops home yesterday. He's gonna catch hell from the sheep dems in Congress, but he really pulled a "Wellstone" on them. He's right.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Win What? Why should we have gone there in the first place? You're not asking the right questions! :bricks:
  21. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:

    IMO Al Queda and Sadr and his backers in Iran were thrilled by the resolution passed by the HOR today also. I sure they think highly of Rep Mc Govern along with congressmen lok R Paul R-Tx.

    I
  22. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,609
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    more "the world is either black or white" rhetoric from a man who seems to find perspective for a moment, but then loses it again at the end...

    different war, different times, different rationale, different mindset in America, both in the 60s, as well as the 40s... but, of course, war enthusiasts love to link past wars to this conflict when it suits them, and contrast them when it doesn't suit them... both of which you've done right here above...

    the communists won in Southeast Asia, and yet Russian-style communism still lost overall ... the latter of which is what a lot of people predicted in the 60s... it was unecessary to escalate in Southeast Asia, despite a legion of McCarthyists (like yourself, apparently) ramping up the fear card about the great Red threat the decade before and all throughout... and that is why America was digusted with losing 58,000 of it's fighting men in a country that never threatened us...

    and here we 30 years later, attacked by a very specific enemy, and going half-assed in pursuit after that enemy, all while making up reasons to redeploy and instead discipline a regional bully and take his resources...

    and yet you wanna sit here and repeat the same broken record, "you're killing our soldiers"... how insulting and baseless.... debate the facts and the merits occupation... don't play heartstring games that have all been debunked on their own lack of merit time and time again.... and please don't sing to us about some requirement of blind loyalty to a leadership that lied us into a disaster, keeps lying, keeps firing "calmer minds," keeps ignoring its generals, and on and on and on...

    this is a federal mafia we are living under, there's no doubt about it... perhaps you like gangsterism...
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  23. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    What difference does it make what AQ thinks of us? If they weren't motivated last week, they aren't today. What more mitivation could they need to kill Americans that the presence of infidel troops from an infidel country on their sacred Muslim soil? Who cares what they think? Maybe our military brass ought to give that a thought, but for some reason, they don't.
  24. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,251
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Obviously, that's the key question. Bush's war on terror has cost us 3,000 lives, made Iran more powerful, critically destabilized Iraq, given Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups a rallying cry, cost us hundreds of billions of dollars, and killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

    You shouldn't let Al Qaeda's feelings enter into the equation, unless you want them to influence our foreign policy. We must act in our own interests, even if it's something Al Qaeda wants. An example you can probably more easily relate to: When terrorists killed 240 Marines in Lebanon, Reagan pulled out. Do you think he was allied with the terrorists?
  26. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Very true....Nothing has been asked of us. We coast as if nothing's happening. What hardships have the warpigs had to endure? Waiting for the old "This is a modern war. Wars are different now" line from the rumpswabs of the Pentagon. If it isn't like wars of the past anymore, why do we still call it a war? Let's save that term for when we're really in a "war".
  27. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:



    One American Revolution general, successful at the battle of Bunker Hill, then at Trenton, Princeton, Bennington, and beyond. I used to live about a quarter mile from his birthplace, a tiny house about the size of Madonna's shoe closet, on South Elm Street in Manchester, NH. His name is John Stark, who once said: "Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils." This is the motto of NH, by the way.

    There is only ONE commander in Chief, not four hundred and fifty sitting in Congress.

    There is only ONE state department, not four hundred and fifty separate ones.

    If you don't like what the president is doing, cut off the funding. Then elect someone better.

    In the meantime: get behind him and don't show any public disrespect because he is not just an individual, he is the head of the nation.
  28. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,225
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -2

    My Jersey:


    The difference is that when Al Queda percieves us a weak and indecisive it encourages them to attack us.
  29. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,624
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #15 Jersey
    First of all, NH's motto, Live free or die, has fallen on hard times, don't you think? Pay much in taxes up there? The commander in Chief is supposed to be defending the country, not following an agenda cooked up by some think tank. The majority of congress do not want this war. The majority of Americans do not want this war. This war was never, ever, about terrorism. The reason for fighting this war has changed half a dozen times. You reason that we should elect someone better, does that mean we wait two more years of this disastrous presidency or do we rid ourselves of this "war time" president?
  30. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,280
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    The vote is all politics. It's a chance for people to point at an unpopular war & president. Why don't they vote on funding if they're so serious? It's all politics.

Share This Page