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The evil of socialistic medicare!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by fleabassist1, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Here's a good read for ya.

    http://www.rangelmd.com/2007/08/socialized-medicine-less-advanced-care.htm

    And here is one from BBC news, given it is a bit older:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3749801.stm


    Here's another one:
    "Why choose moorfields Eye Hospital? Because our wait times average 8.71 weeks! Isn't that wonderful? You can also wait 2.99 months for surgery!"
    http://www.moorfields.nhs.uk/Aboutus/WhychooseMoorfields/Waitingtimes


    Aaaaaaand how about canada?
    http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?snav=nr&id=753

    http://canadaonline.about.com/od/healthcarewaittimes/Wait_Times_for_Health_Care_in_Canada.htm



    I'v never heard of an american going to britain for their health care system...
     
  2. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    We already have a "socialistic" medical sytem. It's called Medicare. And I don't hear any Americans complaining against the system. On the contrary, Americans are overwhelmingly for Medicare and Social Security systems.

    A universal health system will simply expand existing Medicare and Medicaid programs to cover all Americans. It is that simple.

    As a result of the Federal government taking over the health care system, American businesses will be relieved of these expenses, be more competitive against global competitors, and employ more people.

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2007
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    regarding Canada when I lived in N. Maine, everyone used to go to north of the border for dental care, it was about 1/2 price and as far as anyone could tell there was no difference. We have canadian friends and they have no serious complaints, the ony issue they have is accessibility, but that is by their choice because they live in a rural area.
     
  4. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    There are other differences between the US and the UK besides how health care gets paid for. This means that its a mistake to assume we'll end up with the same wait times if we switch to a similar system. The reality is that UKer's are willing to accept certain limits that I don't believe Americans will. The whole 'stiff upper lip' mindset has more to do with average wait times than the accounting method. Remember the scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail where the black knight gamely fought on even after all four of his limbs had been severed? That's not just a movie gag, its how those people really think:eek:
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So Socialized medicine in America will be even more expensive than socialized medicine in the UK, Great.
     
  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You're still using faulty logic. Its fair to say that those people not important enough to the corporate world (those who don't have access to large-scale health plans) will pay more for health insurance because they'll start paying something and no longer pay nothing; but the overall effect has too many variables associated with it. What's the savings if you cut Heart Attacks by 15%? The tab on an operating room and a surgical team to staff it adds up pretty fast. A lot faster than free access to a gym.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2007
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Socialized medicine blows. But worse than that it's simply not right. There should be no inherent right to something which has to be paid for by others. Freedom of Speech ? Doesn't cost anyone else anything. Freedom to Bear Arms ? Doesn't cost anyone else anything. Freedom of Religion ? Doesn't cost anyone else anything. Free Medical Care ? It's paid for by others.

    Not only is it bad care, it's just not right.
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    One other thing. As I heard Walter Williams say on Friday when he was sitting in for Rush - if they're going to try to push this sh!t on us it should be under one condition : Every Congressperson and his family should be able to get their medical care through this system and this system only. No private or different care for them, their spouses, parents or kids.

    Then let's see how many votes it gets.
     
  9. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm sorry you feel that way. I guess this is goodbye then:( considering you've never paid a dime towards the upkeep of this site and you don't believe you should have something that's paid for by others.

    I'm sure you're not even reading this since I know how much your word means to you. Too bad, 'cause if you were I'd be explaining to you about how so many 20 somethings opt out of health insurance for decades thinking its worth the risk. Not to mention all the contractors and other self-employed types who glom onto their wife's insurance and never pay a dime. I wonder how much more money would be available to the system if all of them had to pay? Which if its based on plain old employment, like taxes, they would.
     
  10. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Ian chooses to. Is the government forcing him to ?
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If their wife is paying for the family's health ins why should they pay twice?

    After all even if the health ins the wife gets from work is free, well it is still calculated as part of her compensation package IOW it lowers her salary or some other aspect of her compensation.
     
  12. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    We should have socialized houses too - and socialized cars. Why should the rich get better houses and cars anyway ?
     
  13. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You see its not though. Private Medical Insurance should be the same minus a small increase to make up for separate billing; but it isn't. If you can't negotiate with an insurance company by threatening to yank hundreds or thousands of premiums away you get screwed. I pay $300 a month for crappy coverage. If I went to work for a large company the total paid between me and them to cover me would be cut hugely. Under a single payer system the negotiating power is massive. Anyone who won't play ball is out of business.
     
  14. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So the reason why you won't consider alternatives to fix this health care crisis we have is because you're afraid you'll end up driving some crappy East German car?:confused:
     
  15. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    That was for a logic comparison.

    I don't think we have a crisis.
     
  16. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    The bandwith and access, as well as time spent here pays for it. Furthermore, it's privately owned - he's not being forced to do this.
     
  17. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey


    Welfare! Social Security! ...MEDICARE?

    Let's take MY hard earned money and give it to the bums without my concent!
     

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