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The environment's back on the agenda

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After 6 years of the Republican ignoring the environment so much so that even some hunting and fishing groups complained, it looks like the new Congress will begin addressing issues like global warming much more seriously.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/17/AR2006111701770.html

    Dramatic changes in congressional oversight of environmental issues may pump new life into efforts to fight global warming, activist groups and lawmakers said yesterday.

    Sen. John W. Warner (R-Va.) announced his intention to become the top Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, now headed by Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.), who has said that global warming is a hoax. Warner has called for action against climate change, and his ascension to a leadership post would accelerate significant changes already underway.

    Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) -- a liberal who has called global warming a dire threat -- is in line to chair the committee in the next Congress as a result of last week's elections, which will give Democrats the Senate majority. Environmentalists have been hailing her impending replacement of Inhofe as chairman. Warner's takeover of the ranking minority member's slot, they said yesterday, would raise even greater hopes for advancing their agenda.

    "That could drastically change the way that committee operates," said Karen Steuer, government affairs chief at the National Environmental Trust. "We might see, on a number of issues, bipartisan legislation coming out of that committee, and that would be a huge step forward. . . . In one fell swoop, it's gone from the Dark Ages to the Space Age."
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Hopefully the Republicans will stand up to any nonsense, there's enough Republicans to filibuster any crap.
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I laugh when we have pols most with no background in science trying to set policy based on an unproven scientific theory. BTW I wonder how many members of congress have even taken a partial diff eq course? I'm guessing Arnold S & Boxer haven't.

    A new paper on global warming here is the executive summary with a link. This a not for profit org. that allows printing of the exec summary. Please visit the sitee for the complete paper.

    http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st279/
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While you're laughing at pols for making policy by relying on the vast majority of scientists, the vast majority of scientists are laughing at people like you for relying on people who worked for oil companies and tobacco companies (S. Fred Singer) and who wrote discredited claims about organic foods (Dennis T. Avery). If you want to make a case against global warming, stop posting information by corporate hacks and liars. And also stop suggesting that you are somehow superior to politicians on this subject, unless in fact you are a scientist in a relevant field.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=S._Fred_Singer
    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Trashing_organic_foods
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Define the "vast majority" of scientist. I have seen no such poll of scientist.

    Are these 'social scientist'? Physicist? Chemist?

    Have they corrected the falwed computer models?

    Singer is a trained physicist. BTW how objective are the scientist who rely on politicans (who want to promote man made global warming) for their funding?

    I note you have no coherent response to the data collected by Singer from a variety of sources. Are all these scientist in on a conspiracy of some sort? Did they all fake their findings?

    Arracking the individual without addressing the data is a cop out.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

    Check out Al Gore's book, An Inconvenient Truth, which is more convincing than anything you've posted, though has simply too much to put in message here. While I wouldn't be surprised if scientists agree that there are natural events at play, too, the fact that global warming has increased dramatically since the Industrial Revolution is what leads most scientists to believe that humankind is a contributing factor to global warming. As I've said all along, even if global warming is a natural phenomenon, there is the danger that it could kill millions of people, and we should do all we can to address it.

    As far as scientists associated with politicians vs. scientists associated with business, I think the ideal is to find simply honest scientists associated with academic and research institutions. Peer reviewed papers are probably the most accurate measure of scientific thought, and there too global warming skeptics lose badly (see the second link above). As far as trusting people with a commercial interest in pretending pollution has no effect on global warming vs. people who work for those elected to serve, I would lean towards trusting the latter. Tell me, how long did it take before you came to believe that cigarettes don't cause cancer? Did you only change your views once the big companies admitted they were lying?
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The computer midels relied on by the CO2 global warming enthuiast have been shown to be wrong. ie, whne you plug in the past measured CO2 levels the temps should be higher than what we currently observed.

    Gore's movie has been debunked as being factually challenged.

    Here is some reading to help educate you:

    from a goverment source, non copyright:

    From Space.com, Were you aware that the Sun's magnetic field has DOUBLED in the past 100 years? That the Sun's magnetic field effects cosmic rays reaching earth? That cosmic rays affect could formation? That water vapor in the atmosphere is the most powerful greenhouse gas?

    Follow the link anbd learn"

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/061023_rays_warming.html



    Now from the leading climatologist at MIT:

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation... science: [url]http://www.junkscience.com/
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This did not stop the pols who avoided the draft or any military experience, from leading us into a conflict that is more expensive than any other with no end in sight. The experience of the politicians in any area has never stopped them from legislating anything, in fact the opposite is the norm.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know where to begin, but Morano works for Inhofe, who even skeptics find extreme in his view of global warming. (I think he thinks there's no global warming whatsoever, not even the natural kind.) He's also a Swiftnboater and worked for Rush Limbaugh. With those credentials, he's not a credible source.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano

    Also, he's quoting from that small list of skeptics, most of whom are funded by polluting corporations. For instance,

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_S._Lindzen

    And see: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/26/wsj-gore/

    For someone who accuses various parties of some sort of bizarre conspiracy to manufacture the idea that humans contribute to global warming, can't you find someone who's not on the take or not politically extreme to make your point?

    Again, I don't deny the possibility that there are natural factors at play, too, but the fact is, from what I have read, since the Industrial Revolution we've pumped zillions of tons of pollutants into the atmosphere and the pace of global warming has increased.

    Now, what I don't get is that regardless of the cause of global warming, it's dangers are clear. Is it worth investing in the kinds of alternative energy and environmental responsibility that will yield many different benefits, even if global warming is a natural phenomenon. Clearly, you are on the side of the companies that have fought alternative energy for years. I think there is no benefit whatsoever to your approach, except some sort of perverse nationalism where the United States should not be part of solving a global problem.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually the temp has been increaseing since the Kittle ICe age and especially since the 3 year cold soike created by the Krakitoa (sp) volcano. Most of the increase in temp has occured before the largest increases in atmospeheric CO2.

    I wish you would spend more time responding to specifics of the data presented and less attacking the people who bring up the data. Imhofe or his staffers don't do research, and their opinion doesn't affect the accuracy of the data one way or the other.

    The fact is during geologic time frames the CO2 levels in the atmosphere have been far higher than the current levels. During these periods live on the planet thrived.

    The fact is that during the midevil warming period temps were far higher than they currently are (Vikings were growing grapes in New Brunswick and farming on Greenland). This warming had nothing to do with domesticated primate CO2 emissions and everything to do with natural cycles. The fact is that the CO2 models espoused by Global warming enthuisast have been shown to be incorrect, Whne you apply past CO2 data to the model is doesn't predict the current temp, the predicted temps are much hogher than observed temps, ie the model is not accurate and need to be revised.

    In science whne you develop a model and it doesn't correctly predict observed data tha model needs to be changed,
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]


    Al Gore's Book....ROFL!
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    A mental midgit can start a war, but he will never understand science. I understand your attempt, but I think the circumstances are far different. An idiot with a gun could kill someone, but that doesn't make him an expert on weaponry, or the environment.

    Actually, your attempted analogy would serve to back patsfans position. Afterall, we've seen the results of draft avoiders who've led us into conflict (GW in IRaq, Slick Willy in Somalia) and they are not good. So why would we want to let mental midgits burden us with Global Warming crap? Remember, the ice is melting on Mars too.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Run For The Hills
    :D :D :D :D :

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