The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

[Snake Eyes]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

This is a serious question- I am not trying to be a wise guy... do you (both) think we'll get these types of offers for Hoyer? While there are quite a few teams desperately trying to find even a C+/B- rating QB, and I would*LOVE* it if the Pats managed a third or a second next year for him, I don't think he's played enough in regular season games to have teams get a good enough look at him.

We got #33 overall for Cassel, but he played the entire 2008 season for teams to review and evaluate.

Hoyer has to his credit: 3 seasons, 286 total career yards, one TD, one Int and an 80.2 QBR. I'm not usually a big stats guy, but the thing that stands out to me about his are how little of them there are to base a decision on.

Again, I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just wondering what you're basing your expectations on.

If a team is QB desperate enough I could see it happening. Regarding what one has to work with when evaluating Hoyer, I think an important point is that it's all NFL snaps, teams obviously have no problem throwing down a lot of money and draft capital on guys that have 0 NFL experience, often to their peril.

There is very little to dislike about Hoyer, the problem with him is that he's not thought to have much upside. As Patchick said regarding Hoyer 'He's so damn ordinary'.

 

[manxman2601]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

This is a serious question- I am not trying to be a wise guy... do you (both) think we'll get these types of offers for Hoyer? While there are quite a few teams desperately trying to find even a C+/B- rating QB, and I would*LOVE* it if the Pats managed a third or a second next year for him, I don't think he's played enough in regular season games to have teams get a good enough look at him.

We got #33 overall for Cassel, but he played the entire 2008 season for teams to review and evaluate.

Hoyer has to his credit: 3 seasons, 286 total career yards, one TD, one Int and an 80.2 QBR. I'm not usually a big stats guy, but the thing that stands out to me about his are how little of them there are to base a decision on.

Again, I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just wondering what you're basing your expectations on.

Actually I don't think we'll get much for Hoyer at all. I think teams would rather have Weeden or Tannehill over him, if Peyton goes to either Tenn or SF there'll be a market for Alex Smith or Matt Hasselbeck and then there's a potentially very strong QB class next year. The only way we'll get much value back on Hoyer is if a team panics due to a pre-season injury heading in to the season.

Anyone thinking about a trade involving Hoyer needs to put themselves in to the role of a generic GM. If you were such a person and needed a QB, what would be your preferred option. If you are honest, trading significant draft picks for Brian Hoyer is probably well down on the list.

 

[Wilfork#75]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

I don't think that its wildly unrealistic to think we could maybe get a 3rd for Hoyer, but the only team that would do that would be Cleveland. They clearly aren't sold on Colt McCoy, and they missed out on Flynn and RGIII. So what are their options. They could go Tannehill, but that would mean they would need to take him at 4, and I don't think he is a great fit there anyway. So I think he is highly unlikely for them, and looks set for Miami and his former Head Coach Mike Sherman.

The next best QB in the draft is Brandon Weeden, who is 2 years older than Hoyer, less experienced and comes from a spread offense. While Hoyer has much more experience at the College level, and has spent the last few years behind Tom Brady and being coached by Bill Belichick in and NFL offense. Weeden will also require a higher pick to be drafted than Hoyer would need if we let him go for a 3rd.

The rest of the QB's in the draft are either extremely risky (Osweiler) or limited ceiling like Hoyer (Cousins). And the FA market doesn't look much better. Alex Smith could be available, but only if Peyton goes to San Fran. When looking at this, I think Hoyer becomes a pretty attractive option for a team like Cleveland.

These are really their QB options:

- Stick with Colt McCoy, and bring in a vet as a backup (which hasn't worked for them the past few seasons)

- Maybe sign Alex Smith, but he might not be available

- Draft Ryan Tannehill at #4, who is raw, risky and will be overdrafted

- Draft Brandon Weeden at #37, who is old, inexperienced and comes from a spread offense, but does have some upside.

- Draft Osweiler/Cousins in the 2nd/3rd round- need a lot of developing

- Trade a 2nd or 3rd for Hoyer, who has limited upside and experience, but he's been in a system for 3 years under BB and Tom Brady. He also projects well to their system.

There aren't exactly any great choices for the Browns, but Hoyer could be the safest and most ready to start from day 1.

 

[manxman2601]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

I don't think that its wildly unrealistic to think we could maybe get a 3rd for Hoyer, but the only team that would do that would be Cleveland. They clearly aren't sold on Colt McCoy, and they missed out on Flynn and RGIII. So what are their options. They could go Tannehill, but that would mean they would need to take him at 4, and I don't think he is a great fit there anyway. So I think he is highly unlikely for them, and looks set for Miami and his former Head Coach Mike Sherman.

The next best QB in the draft is Brandon Weeden, who is 2 years older than Hoyer, less experienced and comes from a spread offense. While Hoyer has much more experience at the College level, and has spent the last few years behind Tom Brady and being coached by Bill Belichick in and NFL offense. Weeden will also require a higher pick to be drafted than Hoyer would need if we let him go for a 3rd.

The rest of the QB's in the draft are either extremely risky (Osweiler) or limited ceiling like Hoyer (Cousins). And the FA market doesn't look much better. Alex Smith could be available, but only if Peyton goes to San Fran. When looking at this, I think Hoyer becomes a pretty attractive option for a team like Cleveland.

These are really their QB options:

- Stick with Colt McCoy, and bring in a vet as a backup (which hasn't worked for them the past few seasons)

- Maybe sign Alex Smith, but he might not be available

- Draft Ryan Tannehill at #4, who is raw, risky and will be overdrafted

- Draft Brandon Weeden at #37, who is old, inexperienced and comes from a spread offense, but does have some upside.

- Draft Osweiler/Cousins in the 2nd/3rd round- need a lot of developing

- Trade a 2nd or 3rd for Hoyer, who has limited upside and experience, but he's been in a system for 3 years under BB and Tom Brady. He also projects well to their system.

There aren't exactly any great choices for the Browns, but Hoyer could be the safest and most ready to start from day 1.

You don't address whether Hoyer is an upgrade over McCoy however and there's little evidence that he is.

They clearly aren't sold on Colt McCoy

Is there any actual evidence for this? Sure they tried to get in on the RGIII trade, but unless you've got a top 10 QB, who wouldn't. They've made no other attempt to go after a QB in FA like Flynn or even Manning. This tells me that they're either not looking for a marginal upgrade over McCoy or that they are targeting either Tannehill or Weeden in the draft.

 

[Wilfork#75]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

You don't address whether Hoyer is an upgrade over McCoy however and there's little evidence that he is.

We don't know whether Hoyer would be an upgrade over McCoy or not, and thats the biggest issue when talking about a Hoyer trade. We don't know what he can do and other teams aren't completely sure what he is able to do. However, the fact that he is so well regarded by the Patriots is a good sign for him. Whether they should or not, some teams buy into the BB and Patriots aura. When Michael Lombardi interviewed for the GM job at the 49ers he said his first move would be to trade for Hoyer as his starting QB, so there are some people around the league that definitely like him.

Is there any actual evidence for this? Sure they tried to get in on the RGIII trade, but unless you've got a top 10 QB, who wouldn't. They've made no other attempt to go after a QB in FA like Flynn or even Manning. This tells me that they're either not looking for a marginal upgrade over McCoy or that they are targeting either Tannehill or Weeden in the draft.

We don't know for sure, but the rumors have been around since mid season and the Browns certainly haven't been very convincing in their support for McCoy. I'm not saying the Browns would trade for Hoyer, but I think this would make the most sense if a team did make a move for him. I think he would be more attractive to them then he would any other team.

 

[Snake Eyes]

re: The "Elite" Offseason Mock: Barron, Shea McClellin, Amini Silatulo, Jamell Fleming

You don't address whether Hoyer is an upgrade over McCoy however and there's little evidence that he is.

Is there any actual evidence for this? Sure they tried to get in on the RGIII trade, but unless you've got a top 10 QB, who wouldn't. They've made no other attempt to go after a QB in FA like Flynn or even Manning. This tells me that they're either not looking for a marginal upgrade over McCoy or that they are targeting either Tannehill or Weeden in the draft.

How much evidence is there that a college player will be an upgrade when he gets to an NFL team?