The dreaded "source": Spikes and Pats ain't sayin' **** to each other

[JackBauer]

What would the Pats need to go back to a true 3-4? Rotating Nink back to LB and bringing in...say Bryant? Houston? Griffen?

And would they also need an LB like Jackson to round it out?

What we'd need are some real 3-4 ends. Not sure what happens to Chandler Jones in that scenario.

 

[Deus Irae]

What would the Pats need to go back to a true 3-4? Rotating Nink back to LB and bringing in...say Bryant? Houston? Griffen?

And would they also need an LB like Jackson to round it out?

As of this moment, something like:

Wilfork/Kelly/Silaga/Tyson Jackson/Red Bryant - D Line

Chandler Jones would have to become a sub player.

As for LBs, if you're keeping Spikes in the scenario, you've got

Ninkovich
Mayo
Spikes
Hightower
Collins
Fletcher

 

[Brady6]

As of this moment, something like:

Wilfork/Kelly/Silaga/Tyson Jackson/Red Bryant - D Line

Chandler Jones would have to become a sub player.

As for LBs, if you're keeping Spikes in the scenario, you've got

Ninkovich
Mayo
Spikes
Hightower
Collins
Fletcher

If you signed Red Bryant or Arthur Jones, you could use a 3-4 front even without Spikes.

- SOLB – Rob Ninkovich, Jamie Collins
- LDE – Red Bryant, Chris Jones
- NT – Vince Wilfork, Sealver Siliga
- RDE – Tommy Kelly, Armond Armstead
- WOLB – Chandler Jones, Michael Buchanan
- SILB – Donta Hightower, Steve Beauharnais
- WILB – Jerod Mayo, Dane Fletcher

Overall, I think the 4-3/3-4 conversation is overrated currently.

 

[patsfan-1982]

4-3 or 3-4 its still going to be the same players on the field, IMO the biggest problem with playing the 3-4 is none of the LB's are pass rushers they would all be ILB's in a 3-4 and it turns the only pass rusher on the team Chandler Jones into a ?

 

[Kontradiction]

What we'd need are some real 3-4 ends. Not sure what happens to Chandler Jones in that scenario.

He'd have to put on some weight and hold up better against the run while not losing the god given pass rushing ability he already has once putting on said weight.

 

[strngplyr]

4-3 or 3-4 its still going to be the same players on the field, IMO the biggest problem with playing the 3-4 is none of the LB's are pass rushers they would all be ILB's in a 3-4 and it turns the only pass rusher on the team Chandler Jones into a ?

I pretty much agree with this, Jones and Ninko, the only 2 guys who fit the role as pass rushers on the team and play much better with their hands in the dirt.

Ninko was mocked for years as an OLB as the "worst starter in the NFL", now he's known as "the most underrated DE in the NFL". Jones has bulked up specifically to have more staying power in the line, I don't really want to see either of these guys dropping back anymore.

Fletcher, Hightower, Spikes, and Mayo are all ILBs at heart in a 3-4, Collins is the only guy built to play outside.

We also don't have the DE's for a 3-4 currently on the roster, Kelly and Wilfork are both interior guys and armstead is the biggest question mark on the roster.

We spent something like 3 draft + FA periods getting the personnel to play a 4 man front, I don't see us switching back overnight.

 

[Deus Irae]

...Fletcher, Hightower, Spikes, and Mayo are all ILBs at heart in a 3-4, Collins is the only guy built to play outside...

You're kidding with this, right?

 

[strngplyr]

You're kidding with this, right?

Sorry, I should say in "our" 3-4. Every one of those guys would be an MLB for us, and actually, every one of the except Hightower, who wasn't here during our 3-4 days, DID play exclusively inside.

So no, I'm not kidding with that.

 

[Brady6]

Fletcher, Hightower, Spikes, and Mayo are all ILBs at heart in a 3-4, Collins is the only guy built to play outside.

Fletcher was a college DE so he can play outside, and Hightower fits well at the SAM and actually played surprisingly well at the WILL last season (towards the end of the year). I think Collins and Mayo are the players best equipped to play OLB in space (coverage) but the others are certainly capable.

 

[manxman2601]

In terms of optimum fit, strngplyr is correct.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry, I should say in "our" 3-4. Every one of those guys would be an MLB for us, and actually, every one of the except Hightower, who wasn't here during our 3-4 days, DID play exclusively inside.

So no, I'm not kidding with that.

1.) Differences between best fit, good fit, and needed fit

2.) Difference in requirements in the Patriots 3-4 for OLB/ILB


You seem confused about those.

 

[Deus Irae]

In terms of optimum fit, strngplyr is correct.

Of all the Patriots LBs, Collins is, far and away, the worst at setting the edge, because he's awful at head on tackling.

That's not optimum OLB in the Patriots system, by a long stretch.

 

[strngplyr]

1.) Differences between best fit, good fit, and needed fit

2.) Difference in requirements in the Patriots 3-4 for OLB/ILB


You seem confused about those.

And you're pretending to know what our team would do. I'm referring to what they have done in the past, and usually, how they use a player is symbolic of how they view a player fits into a specific role.

Perhaps they were played out of their best fit out of need, perhaps its simply how BB views the player. Spikes, Mayo, and Fletcher all had success playing the MLB role in a 3-4 and would probably resume their roles if we went back to that scheme.

 

[manxman2601]

Of all the Patriots LBs, Collins is, far and away, the worst at setting the edge, because he's awful at head on tackling.

That's not optimum OLB in the Patriots system, by a long stretch.

"head on tackling" is not what I think of when I think of "setting the edge". It's about standing up the blocker and being able to make plays off him, preventing the runner from getting outside you.

Collins has good length, athleticism to bend the edge and can drop back in coverage. That's what I look for from a 3-4 OLB.

 

[EddieBlake]

Spikes can go. He's a liability in the passing game,in a passing league. Also if I was to hear another Pat killed someone his would be the first name I'd expect....just a weird character. Glad to hear after Michael Sam ran a 4.9 his name has faded as being linked to us,we dont need another liability in coverage.

 

[RayClay]

What would the Pats need to go back to a true 3-4? Rotating Nink back to LB and bringing in...say Bryant? Houston? Griffen?

And would they also need an LB like Jackson to round it out?

They'd need two 3-4 defensive ends.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is exactly how i see it. If CJ Mosely continues to fall in draft projections and is on the board when they pick in the first I would hope they seriously consider him. They have a good LB corps but Mosely would be an excellent addition and would give them flexibility and depth as well as helping them replace Spikes.

Now sure where you are hearing that Mosely is "falling" in draft projections, but he's always been a mid to late 1st round pick. That being said, whether they go NT or ILB depends totally on the health of Wilfork, in my honest opinion. If Wilfork is healthy, then the Pats will consider a position other than the D-Line. Otherwise, I say the D-line, specifically NT, is where the Pats will go.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'll miss his big plays (something Jerod Mayo is allergic to), but I won't miss watching him in coverage.

I see idiotic comments like this and it makes me wonder if you ever bother to actually watch the defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

What we'd need are some real 3-4 ends. Not sure what happens to Chandler Jones in that scenario.

Jones would be moved to LOLB in the 3-4. He'd be the equivalent of McGinest playing the Elephant, but on the weak side.

Ninkovich would be the ROLB. Collins and Mayo inside with Hightower rotating in as needed.

 

[DaBruinz]

They'd need two 3-4 defensive ends.

The Pats have Tommy Kelly and Chris Jones who can play 3-tech effectively, though Jones is a better pass rusher than run stopper.

They would only need to add ONE vet 3-4 DE. The Pats have 1 guy they really like on the team in Armond Armstead but he's a question mark until he can prove healthy.