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The difference between Terrell Owens and Randy Moss

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by rookBoston, May 6, 2007.

  1. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Reiss has a link to a Philadelphia Inquirer article that spends a lot of time downplaying the Randy Moss acquisition by the Patriots. Obviously, the city of Philadelphia still has some sensitivity to primadonna receivers. What drew my attention is the quote attributed to Scott Pioli on the topic of recruiting low character talent.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20070506_Dont_give_Patriots_the_trophy_just_yet.html

    Apparent contradiction? No.

    There's an important difference between Moss and Owens that isn't being discussed. The media is intent on painting Moss and Owens with the same brush. Both are great talents, and game breakers. Both have been disruptive to their teams in the past, sure. But the context has been very different, and the underlying personality traits are very different.

    Owens is a media hound and a self-promoter. He's a showman and a firebrand. He spends time thinking about what he can do to get himself onto ESPN when the cameras are on him. He uses his talent to make himself into a celebrity. He's focused on the money, and is a manipulator-- e.g. getting the trade to the Ravens reversed, because he wanted to play for the Eagles. He uses his talent to attract attention, and take the stage. (I'm actually starting to think he's maturing a bit, now that he's in Dallas... we'll see)

    Granted, Moss has the case of mooning the Lambeau crowd hanging over him-- which is reminiscent of Hobbs celebrating inappropriately at San Diego-- but that is not what defines him. Moss is most famous and most notorious for quitting on his team, not running routes to completion if the ball is going elsewhere, giving up on the team before the game is over-- very Corey Dillon, actually.

    What happens when you take talented players who really care about the game, and force them to play for perennial losers, like Cincinnati or Oakland or Arizona? How do they react in a team environment, when they are doing everything they can for the team, and the team isn't holding up it's end of the bargain? Where does a guy like Dillon or Moss find motivation to keep showing up, putting in the time that they want to dedicate to winning, when they see incompetance and laziness around them? They get frustrated. They stop. They lash out. They get a bad reputation.

    The key character difference between TO and RM is what BB and SP repeatedly mention in the offseason: "Football is important to him". That is the defining thread of what the Patriots are looking for. It's a measure of dedication and commitment to winning the game.

    Owens has made good teams worse-- the Eagles in particular, by introducing negative media attention. In Phili, he publicly roasted his QB, and kept feeding the media frenzy. What was he thinking?!? He didn't seem to particularly care whether the team wins, so long as he gets his face time.

    In contrast, Dillon and Moss have made bad (very bad) teams better; talented, hardworking, football guys who demonstrated the ability to play at the highest levels on mediocre (Minnesota), bad (Cincinnati) and really bad (Oakland) teams. But at some point, the clash between their desire to win coupled with the constant losing, causes them to lash out at the organization because they are not getting the support they need to make a meaningful difference.

    The Pats want players who hate losing. Who hold themselves and others accountable for losing. On a bad team, that is a characteristic that will get in the way. Bad teams need quiet team-first guys who can cope with the losing and put a good face on it, for the sake of the marketing. Guys like Bledsoe, who was as cool and gracious after a loss as a win, are the perfect front man for a losing team. Guys like Moss, who cant (or choose not to) hide their disgust, get wrapped up in controversy. And then, they get painted with the same brush as Terrell Owens and Ricky Williams and the rest of the boobs that have real issues with maturity and focus and commitment. But put Moss and Dillon in a winning environment, and everything falls into place for them.

    The end symptoms may looks similar-- giving up on the team, disrespecting teammates and coaches-- but the psychological profiles are very different.

    (I wonder, actually, how Ricky would have done in a winning environment. I remember reading a story that he started smoking pot again after losing to the Pats late in the season in 2003. I remember it particularly, because it registered with me that the Pats success was driving others to use drugs... which is a curious concept. 2003 was the season when the Pats stole an OT win at Miami by blocking a FG, and getting Mare to miss the would-be game winner. And later in the season, a shut out in Foxboro with fans throwing snow in celebration, on the way to a SB titile. That was the game the Pats clinched the AFC East. That year the Fins had a real good team and had been favored in the Division, but the Pats had something intangible. A guy who resorts to weed to cope with losing must care a lot, deep down, to put his career at risk like that. Apparently, that game was the last straw broke Ricky's back-- which indicates something about his mental fragility. But you wonder what might have been, if he'd been drafted by Denver, Indy or New England.)

    Personally, I have very little concern about the Pats ability to redeem Randy Moss. Randy is finally on a team of players and coaches that are like him. Football is important to them. It's an environment he's never been in before, defined by an expectation for hard work, no excuses and success in every aspect of the game. The fact that Pennington was pressing his FO to bring Moss onto the team speaks volumes to me. I think Moss is right, when he says that we haven't seen everything he's capable of. He finally has the supporting cast that he needs for his potential to really shine through.
     
  2. Bruschi 3:16

    Bruschi 3:16 Practice Squad Player

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    Randy Moss will win a Super Bowl ring this season. Next question...
     
  3. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    nice pick up, rook. I took the time to email the author of the piece about the same topic. Your effort was more articulate than mine. There is a real difference between the risk of a TO, than a risk of a Moss.

    BTW- I really think that TO is off the Pats board by now. ;)
     
  4. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    theres things that make TO better in situations..TO plays no matter what..if hes unhappy or hurt..hes gonna play his ass off . Moss shuts down when hes not happy.
     
  5. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uh, TO was in Parcells' doghouse because of not playing with a 'questionable' hammy pull last season
     
  6. FSUPatsFan

    FSUPatsFan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Actually, this statement proves the difference between TO and Moss. TO plays hard in games because all he cares about is stats and self promotion. This is proven true because like a previous poster said, he didn't practice when his hammy was hurt. Yet, at the same time he showed up to practice looking like lance armstrong so he could still recieve the attention and not practice.

    Moss on the other hand doesn't care about stats. He cares about winning. He shuts down when his team sucks, rather than saying to himself, "well let me at least try to have a 100 yard game." When T.O is losing, hes fine with it as long as the qb is still throwing him the ball and hes getting his stats.
     
  7. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    the eagles need to get over TO he played good for them he just talked a lot and even do i like donovan mcnabb he is to sensitive and brady wont have that problem so he will play hard and have 90rec 1600yerds and 16tds and a ring
     
  8. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Excellent points...allow me to add that I cannot recall RM ever criticizing a fellow teammate as opposed to TO's constant disruption and divisiveness.
     
  9. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wasn't there something last season about Moss mouthing "f***ing Walter!"? Nor should we forget that TO very nearly made the difference in winning a Superbowl for Philadelphia while playing hurt. That said, I agree that he and RM are completely different, and (fingers crossed) I'm confident that we won't go through that kind of circus here.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  10. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

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    The better question is how are their situations different. TO was in a long term deal with Philly that he felt was way below market and it was clear the team was not going to renegotiate. He was trying to get himself released so he could be a FA and make $. The thought was that even with bad publicity, he could find a deal that would be more lucrative in 2006 than what his Eagles deal would have paid. He was as big a divisive force in part because that is who he is but also because he and his agent thought it get him cut and would maximize his value.

    Moss is on a 1 year deal. He has no need to get the team to discard him. His way to max his value is to come in and produce while being a good soldier for a year. That would make him a lot more $ on the free agent market than if he causes issues.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  11. fgssand

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    I know Walter threw RM his 100th TD and I also know that they both were not too enthralled by the play calling of Ryan and expressed some dissatisfaction all in the spirit of wanting to win. I did not hear of any friction or bad words between the two however -- can anybody confirm??
     
  12. smg93

    smg93 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #54 Jersey

    LOSING TEAM
    TO = It's everyone else's fault
    MOSS = It's everyone else's fault

    WINNING TEAM
    TO = I'm the reason the team is so good
    MOSS = I'm glad to be able to contribute

    They're both a bit spoiled especially when they're on a losing team but that's what happens when you've always been so much more talented then everyone around you. Both hate losing, but when the team is winning it seems to me that TO is a lot more "me first" than Randy is.
     
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that their position regarding losing teams is reasonable. They are NOT the reason the team is losing. And yes, those teams would have won more games if they touched the ball more often. I believe Moss is more contrcutive in his criticism, and tries to help out in many ways other than asking for the ball. He is a team leader, and does indeed get after non-performing players.

    Moss loves to win and will be the first on the practice field and the first into the film room, and he will be the last one out. Moss is more than willing to do whatever he can to help the team win.

    And BTW, with regard to Philly, I think the fault does not lie in TO or in McNabb. Reid never gave them a running game. His game plans were aweful. his roster construction was aweful. I do dislike TO.

     
  14. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'm guessing most Raiders fans did more than mouth those words at some time last season.

    The whole Moss mooning thing was blown way out of proportion. It'll always be his defining moment, but frankly I always thought it was pretty funny. It's not like he actually mooned the fans (like, say, Jake Plummer or Mike Vick, who actually flipped fans off)... and it was a touchdown celebration. People get worked up over touchdown celebrations, and it really brings the fun level of the league down. Sometimes I can't stand the media, which acts like these guys are something other than what they actually are - which is football players. They aren't saints, they aren't the saviors of humanity, most aren't even literate. But they're athletically talented and make for good entertainment. Isn't that what football's all about?
     
  15. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not called the NoFunLeague for nothing.

     
  16. PatsFanSince74

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    ...is the difference between insane and sane?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sure many others had worse to say about Walter. Moss has often gotten down on players who weren't doing thier job to Moss's satisfaction (and he has very high performance standards). He certainly had choice words for Culpepper on a routine basis, and to his offensive linemen.

     
  18. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I agree, I thought it was hilarious. People need an freaking sense of humor.

    Joe Buck is such a d-bag. I remember about a month after he called Moss a "disgrace", he was broadcasting a baseball game on Fox...there was some fat guy in the crowd whose a*s was showing for some reason, and Buck and Fox called attention to it and thought it was hilarious. Apparently Moss is a disgrace for fake mooning a crowd, but Buck thinks a fat guys asscrack is hilarious. I bet he laughs at words like booby and fart, and then goes and self-flagellates himself later for it.

    Anyway, that's my roundabout way of agreeing with you the media is stupid. Moss mooning Green Bay was funny. If anyone here seriously thinks it was a big deal and would use that to judge Randy Moss, then I think they need to get a life.
     
  19. PatsFanInVa

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    agree the mooning was no big deal.

    Noticed that he would show up Culpepper before Culpepper got so banged up only the Doofins would trust him under center.

    Now, I don't care what you say about "Culpepper wasn't the real deal anyway," "the only reason he was any good was moss," etc. He was an okay QB back in the day - maybe top 10 in the game (which puts you at about the 70th percentile.) You don't do that.

    It's not quite like having a running fued with your QB, like TO, and saying if you had Brett Favre you'd be so much better (hah.) But it's definitely deplorable.

    One sight that will be interesting is whether Tom slaps him on the side of his helmet and gets in his face, like I have seen him to do Givens and Brown both. It seems like with the usual guys, he has no compunction about that. I wonder if it will be any different w/Moss.

    PFnV
     

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