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The defense is progressing just fine!

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Dec 30, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    SECONDARY
    The secondary is set for a couple of years. We will need to re-sign Bodden or sign another free agent or two, as we do every year. This need should not obscure the fact that we have a solid core of seven signed defensive backs through 2011: Wilhite, Springs, Butler, Meriweather, Sanders, McGowan and Chung.

    LINEBACKERS
    This group has been doing much better than posters give them credit for. Banta-Cain, Mayo and Guyton are the core. Ninkovich and McKenzie are the young 2010 prospects (and perhaps even Crable). Woods is the stable veteran backup and top special teamer. Thomas may or not be coming back. It seems much more stable for him to stay for a couple of years as the youngsters (drafted and to-be-drafted) develop.

    DEFENSIVE LINE
    I suspect that we will re-sign Burgess as a veteran backup (especially with Green gone) and retain Wilfork as a franchisee or through an extension. This gives us a mixture of veterans and youngsters: Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Burgess, Brace, and Pryor. We even have Practice Squad quality players Adams and Richard.

    BOTTOM LINE
    The defense is NOT a mess. There are NOT needs at many positions. The transition is complete. We now need the normal number of additions in this offseason. This year the need is at DE, OLB and at CB. Sure, we might have filled the DE/OLB need in the 2009 draft. However, the 2010 draft seems very strong at this position, as was anticipated. Perhaps it did make sense to wait until 2010 to find the replacements for Seymour and Vrabel. Burgess is already the replacement for Green.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Good Post! My thoughts....

    Bodden doesn't resign and you have Willhite, Wheatley, Butler and a 35 yr old Springs as your CBs. Could be ok if Butler steps in and offers Bodden-like production.

    Love the safeties. Chung will be fine.

    career year out of TBC. mayo & guyton are fine. Crable is nothing. McKenzie is an unkown. Thomas is most likely gone. Maybe Woods comes back. Unless they had some speed and playmaking on the edge for run & pass, I am underwelmed. Need more pass rush out of this group. Mayo will be a monster next year!

    I am high on this group actually. Franchise tag is waiting for Vince (as long as he goes along) Brace will continue to develop. Pryor has a nice career ahead of him. Warren is a rock. Wright is a nice player. Green may be gone. I bet they dip into the draft and get a DE.....

    Need guys who can rush the passer and another CB or two depending on what happens w/ Bodden. Got a feeling Wheatley may be on the street in 09.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  3. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Burgess is NOT the replacement for Green. Are you kidding me? He's 260 lbs. He's a 3-4 OLB, a 4-3 DE. Green is a 3-4 DE. TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS!

    Burgess should be listed with the linebackers, i.e. Banta-Cain and Ninkovich. Listing him with Wright, Brace, Pryor, et al is absolutely, mind-numbingly wrong. Have you even watched this season?

    Adams will not be practice-squad eligible, BTW. He has used up his three practice squad seasons.

    Don't create threads like this just to intentionally piss me off.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  4. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For all the bashing the pats' defensive unit receives, let's not forget they have quietly given up only three touchdowns in the last three games combined. Actually this game should be a good test, as this game means everything to the Texans and they have a very potent offense.
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Does that look like a 3-4 DE to you? Are you nuts?
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  6. The Dynasty

    The Dynasty Rookie

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    We definitely need another pass rusher whether its an OLB or a DE. Our secondary is fine in my opinion, hopefully Bodden comes back, but I am really high on Butler. The secondary definitely isnt a concern, but we do need another pass rusher no question about that
  7. Warren94

    Warren94 Rookie

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    dump Springs...wouldn't mind Brandon Ghee from Wake Forest.
  8. scout

    scout Rookie

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    That pick by Springs in the red zone was a veteran play. Right now, who would you rather have back there in red zone coverage?
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Please list all the conclusions with which you disagree

    1) we need one DE
    I apologize if you are so pi$$ed off with the prospect that Burgess is a veteran backup as both he and Green and Burgess are now. In any case, we need another DE.
    2) we need one OLB
    3) we need one veteran corner, preferably Bodden
    4) Adams and Richard are Practice Squad level players (no one said they were eligible for the 2010 Pracitice Squad. I have no interest in that, only in the quality of the players.)
    5) BOTTOM LINE - the need is for a DE, OLB and CB.

  10. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Couldn't agree more. Nice play by the vet.
  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This team needs 2 OLBs, at least one ILB, at least one CB (Probably 2, since we should expect Springs' play to drop off), at least two DEs and, possibly, a starting NT/DT.

    Other than that, it's just ducky.
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The poster was clear that he would rather have an untested rookie than an experienced veteran who has shown that he is better than anyone on our squad but Bodden.

    This is often a position taken by posters.

  13. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    You are assuming Bodden and Wilfork walk?
  14. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    Springs has looked good to me every time he has played. It makes me wonder to what extent he has been out due to injury (chronic knee) as opposed to coaches decision and, if the latter, what problems might have prompted his being replaced? I like the young guys, but my impression is that Springs is bigger and stronger than Wilhite or Butler and is also better in coverage. The younger guys may have better quickness, but it has not enabled them to cover better than Springs. The secondary has never looked better than it does right now. Sun will be a good test for them.
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You'll note that MgTeich's point #3:

    lists Bodden as a preferred veteran corner. Therefore, he can't be already in the group. Wilfork's deal is also up, along with Green's. Since Bodden's in the "preferably" category, Wilfork and Green (and Burgess) are simply placed in the same "not here until they're here" category.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Clearly you are thinking that we are cutting players that are playing reasonably on the current team. You can choose to beleive that there are seven major holes on defense.

    The absurdity of your position can be seen by your indication that we need two defensive ends when we have Warren and Wright in place, with Pryor as backup) and a NT when Wilfork and Brace will be here in 2010.

    And of course, as Mr Pessimist, you presume that neither Springs nor Wheatley will provide any value.

  17. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Burgess and Green are both veteran backups. So are Springs and Aiken. So are Morris and Seau. They play two different positions!!!

    If Green goes, then your pool of DEs to choose from are Wright, Brace, Richard, and Adams. Saying Burgess is part of that equation is like saying Watson is a candidate to replace Neal.

    I agree with the rest of what you said.

    The problem is, half of your post was hinged on the notion that Burgess can somehow play the same position as Green; that is, Green starts for this team at 3-4 DE. In no way, shape, or form can or will Burgess play 3-4 DE for this team in any significant capacity. Burgess is a 3-4 OLB. Saying he can replace Green is like saying Phifer or Vrabel could have replaced Green.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  18. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thomas is gone, Springs might as well follow him. Pats re-sign Bodden, and put Butler, Wilhite, and Wheatley behind him. Keep in mind you still have four quality safeties to take sub package reps away from the CBs; nobody said you need to go 4 or 5 deep with starting-quality CBs. Just ask the 2003 or 2004 Pats - they had 7 starting quality DBs (Law, Poole, Samuel, Wilson, Rodney), and the rest were special teamers (Akins, Cherry, Harris, Mayer, Reid). When one of the starters got injured, they went to FA pickups (Poteat, Moreland), a convert (Troy), or struck gold with a UDFA (Gay).
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So, we both agree that we need a 3-4 DE, an OLB and a veteran corner. This is NOT a large shopping list going into the offseason, especially since one of the options is already on the team and could be re-signed (Bodden).

  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Clearly" nothing...

    Green is gone, contract wise, leaving Warren and Wright. Wright is more of a DT/NT than a 3-4 DE. That's the need for one due to contract and another due to the failure to adequately replace Seymour to this point. There's nothing pessimistic about that.

    Springs will be a year older and, at his age, it's a sensible thing to assume that there will be some dropoff, given that he'll be a 35 year old cornerback. If you don't think the Patriots have done so, at least as something to ponder when determining needed targets in the upcoming offseason, you must think they are idiots.

    Wheatley has fallen to the back of the CB pack. Expecting him to make the leap is nice and all, but it's not a sensible approach to take given his apparent inability to stay in front of rookies or to unseat his fellow second year CB. This isn't pessimism, it's common sense. I grant you that seems to be in short supply around here this year.

    I do, however, expect common sense to return to the team and, to a lesser extent, to this board, once this season is over. Hell, I'm still hopeful that they'll win the Super Bowl despite the year of living foolishly.
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