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The Deep Ball

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by crowell33, Sep 16, 2012.

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  1. crowell33

    crowell33 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brady could sure throw the deep ball to Moss back in 2007. Is this an age issue or a receiver issue? I don't think it is an Oline issue as he had three weeks back there on the pass to Gronk in the endzone today.

    Also, he had one of the best Offense lines in the league in 2011.


    Some stats to note from Patriots' loss - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston


    Brady was 3-for-12 for 80 yards on throws of at least 15 yards downfield. He’s 6-for-19 on such throws through the first two games. Brady connected on 51 percent of his 15-plus yard throws last season.

    Brady had a pair of overthrows on pass attempts thrown 30 or more yards downfield in this game.

    Since the start of 2011 has overthrown 12 of his 19 attempts at least 30 yards downfield (63.2 percent, highest rate in NFL).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  2. Salva135

    Salva135 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Brady has never been good with the deep ball, it's not part of his game and there are many stats out there to show that he pretty much sucks at it.
     
  3. Brettlax3434

    Brettlax3434 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    There may be somthing to it but two games is a small sample size. I think as the season goes on Brady will get more accurate.
     
  4. vuudu

    vuudu In the Starting Line-Up

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    I concur, some of the long bombs Moss caught were not necessary good throws, Moss was just that good that all you had to do was throw in his direction.
     
  5. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Belichick has never really given brady deep ball receivers other than Moss, Stallworth and Gaffney....and that year Brady had his best year.

    Welker is a possession receiver, lloyd has no chemistry with brady yet. The way the league is going, you have to have at least two big strong receivers. We have Gronk and Hernandez, but one of them is out for a while now.
     
  6. crowell33

    crowell33 In the Starting Line-Up

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    The article says from the start of the 2011 season till now. That is a good size sample.
     
  7. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's hard to fault Brady for not being good at throwing deep last year, considering that his top 4 receivers were all guys that probably wouldn't break 4.6 in the 40.
     
  8. Jangles

    Jangles PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah Brady to Moss was a fluke.

    It was like, "Tom just throw it really far and I'll get under it"

    They way Moss played that year, plenty of QB's would have torn it up with him.
     
  9. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brady throws the deep ball as good as any QB in the NFL but at lest 60% of them to Moss were just amazing catchs by Moss
     
  10. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    What are you guys talking about? Brady used to have one of the best deep balls in the game. You remember the 82 yard bomb to Troy Brown in stride in OT to beat the dolphins in OT in Miami? I think he is just rusty with it. Even in 2007, Brady hit moss in stride 60 + yards downfield plenty of times
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  11. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    This is not news. Brady is not a great touch thrower, period. He doesn't really throw the deep ball well, nor the fade, nor any other pass that requires a lot of touch. He is probably the most accurate passer within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage and is also very accurate throwing the 10-15 yard out and the 15-20 yard seam pass, and does it with a lot of velocity. As for the deep ball, it is one thing when you can just throw it to an area on the field and have Moss go get it, it is another to throw it so that an ordinary mortal can go get it. Brady has always, always been bad at it, although to be fair, he generally leads the guy too much so that it is not an interception, rather than underthrowing it (SB 46 aside).
     
  12. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    He's very very close to having 2 40+ yard TD tosses in the 1st 2 games. I don't think it's that far off to be honest, if they're still not hitting it in November then we can panic.
     
  13. Observer

    Observer 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Brady requires a lot of margin on deep throws. If a receiver is not fully open, he will either not throw at all or even if he does, he will throw it out of reach of everyone. He simply does not let the receiver fight for the ball. Randy moss was so good that he could catch anything nearby but our receivers since have only been normal.
     
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And you have to have a guy who can remotely play like that or there is no point throwing the ball deep. After 2007 Moss wasn't even that guy anymore. I don't know who crowell thinks tom could have been throwing deep to successfully in 2011... We didn't have an outside WR unless he's counting captain ST's...or the incomparable Underoos. Every kid they've drafted to be that guy has been too dense to make it in the offense. And it's not like this OL shines in pass protection with any consistency. Brady helps them look better than they are, always has, with pocket presence and quick throws and decisions.
     
  15. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    This is such a case of selection bias....

    I bet fans mostly see deep throws on highlight reels more than anything else; which would obviously make it look easier and more common than it really is. Why? Cause stats don't lie, and Brady is well above average when it comes to deep throws. In fact, Brady was flat out awesome in 2003 and 2004.

    From Espn, I looked up "Passes Thrown" -- which is essentially an air yards stat that ignored YAC -- and I then combined the 31-40 yard throws and 41+ yards throws:

    Player
    Yr:Comp.Att.Yr.TD.INT


    Brady
    '02: 03 22 117 0 1
    '03: 12 31 566 5 3
    '04: 12 38 507 3 3
    '05: 06 27 164 3 1
    '06: 07 25 314 3 3
    '07: 13 30 622 8 2
    '09: 06 30 284 4 4
    '10: 05 19 225 3 2
    '11: 01 15 046 0 0

    PManning
    '02: 08 30 322 3 4
    '03: 11 31 449 6 0
    '04: 11 22 400 8 1
    '05: 09 26 355 7 2
    '06: 13 31 560 3 0
    '07: 10 27 452 6 2
    '08: 07 28 363 3 4
    '09: 07 27 327 3 2
    '10: 08 25 347 3 1

    Roethlisberger:
    '04: 09 25 361 3 3
    '05: 07 13 315 1 1
    '06: 03 19 336 2 6
    '07: 09 18 378 6 2
    '08: 07 24 306 3 2
    '09: 10 24 455 5 2
    '10: 09 19 377 4 1
    '11: 07 27 385 4 2

    Vick
    '02: 06 30 298 3 1
    '03: 03 08 131 1 1
    '04: 04 22 180 2 1
    '05: 06 27 274 1 3
    '06: 06 38 298 0 1
    '10: 08 20 427 3 1
    '11: 07 21 335 2 4

    Rivers:
    '06: 07 30 289 3 0
    '07: 04 21 164 1 2
    '08: 10 24 465 4 1
    '09: 11 35 520 1 2
    '10: 08 21 407 5 3
    '11: 09 31 370 6 4

    Rodgers:
    '09: 09 31 437 2 2
    '10: 08 24 381 4 4
    '11: 11 20 526 6 0

    Flacco:
    '08: 08 31 409 4 3
    '09: 07 28 300 4 4
    '10: 08 23 385 3 0
    '11: 07 33 289 3 1

    Eli
    '05: 05 30 221 0 3
    '06: 10 25 414 5 4
    '07: 06 29 252 3 2
    '08: 05 20 186 3 1
    '09: 08 22 335 2 1
    '10: 07 29 328 6 2
    '11: 11 35 624 3 1
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  16. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    it will come around. Almost had 2 today. Sooner or later it will click
     
  17. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    Brady not a great touch thrower? You're kidding right? :eek:
     
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Name me the receivers he's had who could? And for Randy only count 2007. He was done fighting for balls after that.

    Smart QB's throw the ball only where their receiver can get it. If in doubt go long or high as those are the least likely to get contested into a pick 6. Great receivers have exceptional catch radius. We have a couple of guys who have good to great radius at the moment but one can't get seperation deep or isn't consistently in synch yet and of the other two one went out in the first quarter today and the other had a lousy day by his own standards.
     
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sadly he's not. A lot of that sentiment here. Goes back to his draft scouting... Same people who missed him then still do and likely always will. The laser rocket scatter arm is everything disciples.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  20. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    Haha. Read my post. I praise his accuracy and velocity. touch is something different. It is lofting the ball to a spot on the field. It is just not Brady's strength. On the flip side, Peyton has tremendous touch, but doesn't have a rocket arm. I'm tired of the your condescending posts whenever anyone makes note of a Brady weakness. He, like all players, has them.
     
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