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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Snake Eyes, Jun 30, 2011.

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  1. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If you could select 1 offensive and 1 defensive player in NFL history to build a franchise around, which ones would you select and why?

    After I thought about this question for a minute I realized when we talk about the “best” players in history we really mean the most successful, which is VERY HEAVILY influenced by circumstance: if Joe Montana goes to Tampa Bay he goes down in history as an ok-good QB who had flashes of brilliance but whose career was cut short due to injuries, put him on an excellent 49ers team under Bill Walsh and he goes down as the GOAT. So, going for the most successful players won’t necessarily yield the best results.

    So, who do you chose and why?
     
  2. patriotscpfc

    patriotscpfc Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm going to break it down into 3 categories.

    Patriots:
    Offense: Tom Brady
    Defense: Tippett.

    All-time:
    Offense: Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith. I think an all-star Running Back wouldn't need a great OL compared to a QB who may get crushed.
    Defense: Lawrence Taylor. Monster.

    Current NFL:
    Offense: Other than Brady, I like Andre Johnson. A monster Receiver and catches anything and is a great blocker, but I go with Adrian Peterson. For the reasons above regarding RB's.
    Defense: Ed Reed. You do not throw deep on a defense with a healthy Ed Reed, one of the best Secondary players of all time
     
  3. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I disagree with your running back comment, the reason brady and manning are so successful is they get their OL in the right position and plays more often then not.

    My Two picks: Offense: Brady/Manning (it's a wash for me with those two and the only reason i didn't go other HOF QB's is these two can be you offensive co-ordinators too and i don't know how much of that was done by the other great QB's so i'll stick to what i know)

    Defense: Past: Lawrence Taylor, Present: Demarcus Ware

    You could say someone like Revis/Reed but if Ware is being as dominant as he is putting pressure on you don't need a secondary to be a bunch of revis's.
     
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Offense: Brady

    Defense: Lott, Tippett*, or Washington, depending upon what defense I was playing and what era I was in.




    * I took Tippett over Taylor because he was better in coverage. I could certainly understand someone going with Taylor, though, as he was one heck of a disruptive player.
     
  5. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    All-Time: offense Jerry Rice, he put up unheard of numbers in a time when DB's were free to knock WR's heads off and the bigger the game was the better he played

    All-Time defense Reggie White, the best DL men that ever played


    last 10 years offense Tom Brady, IMO is the GOAT at QB. defense Ray Lewis, one of the best leaders ever and the GOAT at ILB


    but if im building a team right now i would have to go with young guys offense Sam Bradford, i think he's going to be a great QB. defense Devin McCourty, i think he's alredy a top five CB in the NFL and will only get better
     
  6. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Current
    Offense : Tom Brady (his 2006 playoff run was enough to sell me forever)
    Defense : Ed Reed (he's as complete a footballer as you'll ever see)

    Former
    Offense : Jim Brown (from the tape/reading I've seen/done of him it's scary how good he was)
    Defense : Lawrence Taylor (his cameo as Shark was enough to sell me)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2011
  7. ay-yo

    ay-yo Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    This .
     
  8. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Current
    - TFB, no explanation needed here.
    - Ndamukong Suh, this guy is an absolute beast, I think he could be tremendous in a 4-3 or a 3-4, and would anchor your D-line.

    All time
    - Montana is the easy choice, very similar to Brady in many ways but also had mobility that Brady doesnt, but part of me wonders if a better candidate might actually be Bert Jones.

    YouTube - ‪Bert Jones - Colts - 1975‬‏

    BB described Jones as the best passer he's ever seen. He played way to reckless for my tastes but with the right coach players around him, IF he could be molded into a pocket passer, might have been something extraordinary. Again, he didnt have the success of a Montana or Brady, injury shortened his career but in the right situation could he have become the GOAT?

    - Reggie White, one of the best D-linemen ever, not much more needs to be said.
     
  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    this is all so subjective ...but for shizzits and giggles,some picks that go back a bit in time but players I feel could be today what they were then...

    Ro,Mo,Ko and Lo.... Andy Robustelli, Dick Modzelewski, Rosey Grier, Jim Katcavage,Jim LoVetere. ...Giants dominant D line from the 60's

    Running back...Jim Brown...I SAW Jim Brown play back then...the only back I've seen come close to being as dominant was John Riggins...and this is not to knock spectacular running backs like Eric Dickerson or Sweetness. As great as they were they could be stopped. I never saw Jim Brown play a game where he didn't dictate from start to end the offensive production of the Browns. Riggins had a couple of seasons like that with Washington but Jim Brown did it every year right to the day he retired.

    Lawrence Taylor redefined the edge rusher LB in the NFL and made it a glamourous position. Many people equate that with being the greatest linebacker in NFL history. Personally, I was much more in awe of Harry Carson in that Giant defense during those great Giant years.The league has a long glorious history of great backers. How do you pick ONE as the best? I guess, for me, if I was building a team of historical proportions, the first linebacker I would choose is Willie Lanier, the KC Chief perrennial All Pro. For those of you who saw the Chiefs of the 70's you know who I'm referring to. Willie could play in ANY era and he'd still be the most talented physical/mental combination player I've ever seen.

    Then there's the LA Rams Fearsome Foursome....I remember as a young man making sure I never missed a game at 4 pm because the Rams would be playing somebody and Deacon Jones would be making plays and rushing the passer and forcing fumbles like no one had ever seen..and if they ran away from him, Merlin Olsen was there like a stonewall.

    Man, I could go on all night...I guess the point is, great players, truly great ones,are the ones we all know could play in any era, on any team, in any defense. We see them today in guys like Ray Lewis. We saw them in the 80's with Richard Dent and the 70's with Joe Greene. Maybe that's all you can do....recognize greatness.To rank greatness,to me, is purely a subjective dalliance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  10. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    i feel like i read a article on the history of the NFL in the sports section of todays paper, good stuff i think you would make a great sports writer
     
  11. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Could you do me a favor and re-post this under the influence of 10-12 beers. This would be an entertaining drunken conversation.
     
  12. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Tom Brady had Otis Taylor or Paul Warfield to throw to in their primes, the Pats would be the favorite to represent the AFC in the Bowl every year.

    If the Pats had Jim Brown or John Riggins they'd WIN every year...Belichick would see to THAT. In fact, one of the best interviews I've EVER read was the one BB did where he went on and on about Jim Brown, back when BB was with the Giants...maybe it's archived somewhere...it's a Daily News piece if I remember correctly
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Offense -- Montana. As important as an RB is, the QB is much more important. And Brady's had a rough few years in the postseason now.

    Defense -- Taylor. One-man pass rush.
     
  14. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Montana had 3 one and done's in a row with far worse performances...he had like 0 TD and 4 picks so i don't think this hurts Brady's stock at all considering how this team has gone over a dramatic revamp of the roster since 07.

    Offense: In this day and age it has to be a QB. Montana/Brady for me. Both are winners and i think would be successful no matter the system they play.

    D: LT/ Reggie White/Lott/Ray Lewis - any one of these guys will be a great building block in terms of the level of play,attitude and leadership they bring to the table.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  15. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Present Day:

    Offense - Mr. Brady (Jake Long as my second choice as everyone always forgets the OL:D)

    Defense - Haloti Ngata (Things start up front and this guy is just a freak but has to stay motivated.)

    All Time:

    Jim Brown (even Barry's Sanders father says he is the GOAT) Honorable mention to Sammy Baugh who played three position's and was all pro at all three.

    LT - Just a pleasure to watch and changed blocking schemes in the league....pretty powerful if you ask me.

    "He is completely reckless," Patriots head coach Bill Belichick once said of his former charge. "I have never seen a player sell out so completely to make a play."

    Honorable mention to Joe Green who was the key to those top Steelers Defenses.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  16. ScottieC

    ScottieC In the Starting Line-Up

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    Today - Tommy Offense, Ray Lewis Defense

    All Time - Tommy Offense, Ray Lewis Defense

    And I hate Ray Lewis. Bad bad bad man.

    The deal here is building a franchise, how many players mentioned here were considered leaders, like true leaders, their players would follow them almost blindly. Those two are the standard, IMHO, for today and yesterday.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  17. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    Imagine sending GRONK back to the 1930s or 1940s. . . . :eek:
     
  18. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Forget the 30s and 40s...he's an impressive sight to behold even by todays standard.

    He is well on his way to becoming the most complete TE in the NFL. Only thing that can slow him down will be injuries imo.
     
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