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The Bitter Tears of the American Christian Supermajority


Yes I am. I did 12 years of Catholic Education including Religion class every day through Elementary school and High School. learned Latin the whole gig. Have a few relatives who are Priests, my sister who is a Nun and so on. I know the difference between folks who actually take the Church seriously and those who are cafeteria catholics. ...

And?


...Calling someone who is a catholic because they actaually believe in their church strikes me as funny....

This doesn't make any sense. Did you leave out a word or phrase?

Even if you did, I'm not sure how it's going to be relevant to anything I've said.


...BTW I am not the one who started the namecalling others who attacked RI Pats Fans are.

WOnder why there name calling didn't bother you?...

I didn't see any name-calling, though I haven't read every post in this thread, as it became clear that a lot of it was about another poster rather than the topic.

I did see negative posts about him. It didn't bother me because I thought they were accurate in their depictions -- why pile on with ad hominems?


...Most likely they aren't as well versed. I know any number of people who are as well versed in Church teaching as RI Pats Fans. I went to school with a lot of them. ...

Great - so your experience was different than mine. That's all you needed to say in the first place...


...I also know lots of people who call themselves catholic who promote practices like abortion which are condemned by their church. ...

Yup.



...You chastise me for challenging the characterizing RI Pats Fan as an "exter catholic", yet you are silent about those how attack him?

Funny stuff guess you just enjoy stalking me. Or perhaps....

So which are exteme and which are mainstream?

Where did I chastise you? Sounds like you share some of that persecution complex.

and what is an "exter catholic"? I don't know what that means, I didn't see you characterize him as that and I didn't comment on you calling him that, let alone "chastise" you for it.

What I wrote actually partly agreed with you:

"OT: this may be accurate. But I don't think the truly mainstream Catholics in America are particularly well versed in the church's teachings.

The mainstream, from what I saw growing up, are much closer to what you've dubbed cafeteria Catholics."

So tell me, how is this chastising you, exactly? I was agreeing that RI understands the teachings of his church. But I was pointing out that, in my experience, that's not the case for mainstream (American) Catholics.

As for extreme versus mainstream, you'd probably need to examine beliefs of Catholics in America. Probably already been done, I'd imagine. I can't tell you what's extreme v mainstream, I can only tell you what I've seen in my life as an ex-Catholic.
 
If somebody says they are Christian then they are Christian. Too many denominations say they are the real Christians. Who is to say who is right?

You guys do not differentiate with Muslims nor should you with Christians.
 
If somebody says they are Christian then they are Christian. Too many denominations say they are the real Christians. Who is to say who is right?

You guys do not differentiate with Muslims nor should you with Christians.

Agreed.

I call people extremists if they're hateful and discriminate against others. Not for their beliefs themselves.

Beliefs are just beliefs and they're not changing. I've got zero problem with that. It's when they're getting foisted on me, that's a problem.
 
As an ex-catholic whose entire family (-2 children) consists of mainstream PRATICING Catholics, RI Pat is NOT representative of the faith.

On the contrary, he is an embarrassment.


Are they cafeteria catholics like you were?

If you support abortion and claim to be a catholic, that is an extreme position from the POV of the church matter of fact it is a mortal sin?

What happens who don't repent from a mortal sin?

The RC Church isn't a cafeteria where you get to pick and choose what to believe.

BTW I am an ex catholic so I get to go to hell. :eek:
 
Agreed.

I call people extremists if they're hateful and discriminate against others. Not for their beliefs themselves.

Beliefs are just beliefs and they're not changing. I've got zero problem with that. It's when they're getting foisted on me, that's a problem.


And yet you are supposedly a catholic who supports abortion?

:D
 
And yet you are supposedly a catholic who supports abortion?

:D

Do you ever actually read what people write or is it all just assumptions and preconceived notions?
 
Do you ever actually read what people write or is it all just assumptions and preconceived notions?

All the Christians that I know are of the cafeteria type.
 
Do you ever actually read what people write or is it all just assumptions and preconceived notions?


So you are anti abortion?

Sorry if I made a bad assumption, you seem by your post to be a doctrinaire leftist. I assume you view yourselff as pro choice..
 
All the Christians that I know are of the cafeteria type.


I'm pathetic ... I'm not sure I even know some anymore ...

If I went to church I think all the candles would blow out upon my entry.
 
I find it funny when people attack a guy who actually believe the chruch teaching instead of identifying catholic and ignoring the teachings.....

He embraces the ones he wants and yet will blast others for doing the same. Ask him to donate to the poor. Capitalism > Catholicism apparently.
 
I know a lot of practicing Christians but I don't know any that are self-righteous about it. But whenever I meet someone that is, I also get turned off. But that doesn't happen too often. The WORST are those that knock on your door.

So you don't think many non-Christians get disturbed by the corporate attention Christian holidays get? If so, we definitely disagree.

My company is very progressive, yet Good Friday is one of our holidays. And it says, "Good Friday" on the list of holidays.

I know oppressive Christians.

We disagree which is fine.

We get good Friday off too because it's a stockmarket holiday.
 
Thank you Patsfan13.... but you are wasting your time. True Progressives can never accept the God of the RCC and by extension his true church and his revelation to his true church.

They try to change the faith of his true church by pointing out individuals who claim to follow the RCC....people who bastardize the RCC faith with their Progressive values. But it's a lie. Always has been a lie...always will be a lie.

The teachings of the Catholic church are clearly found in the Catechism given to us by God the Holy Spirit through the Magisterium. Popular opinion....polls.........all meaningless.

Isn't it funny how they claim to know what the "true" church teaches, yet they have never once used the RCC catechism successfully to point out the error of my ways. Hmmm...I wonder why (ok, not really).


Oh and Progressives who have made comments about me in this thread......thank you, you made my day. :D I wish you could see the big big smile I have my face right now reading your judgmental and intolerant comments about me. It only strengthens my resolve knowing that so many Progressives dislike me. As a Catholic, it only clearly demonstrates even further that I'm headed in the right direction. So thank you. :D

BTW, I feel pity for you Progressives....being so lost. I sincerely hope that you find our Lord and Savior ************ and his truth found in the true teachings of the RCC. God Bless you.

I could comment line by line but won't waste my time. You enjoy the attention way too much. I'll just say this post is delusional and comedy gold.
 
When religion is argued there is never a winner.
 
Let's have a discussion ... not throw insults.

Way too late for that. RIPF has been allowed to talk down to every around here for too long. His calling progressive worse than Phelphs was the final straw for me. I've never done a hatful thing like that church has in my life but he's allowed to classify and call people evil. The truth is he actually likes Phelphs because he stands for the same hateful things.
 
When religion is argued there is never a winner.

I agree. The mods should lock down religious posts. It's interjected by some at every turn.
 
::Shrug:: That goes to me, Everlong. I opened a post that touched on religion. I view the question of religious persecution (or the claim thereof) as a cultural/political phenomenon, not dependent on actual proof of the goodness or badness of a given belief system.

I'd like to get back to the original question, which can be approached with empirical data. Here are the 2012 hate crime stats - I've focused on the religious bias stats for obvious reasons.

FBI ? Victims

48.5 percent of the victims were targeted because of the offender’s bias against a race.
19.2 percent were targeted because of a bias against a particular sexual orientation.
18.7 percent were victimized because of a bias against a religious belief.
12.1 percent were victimized because of a bias against an ethnicity/national origin.
1.4 percent were targeted because of a bias against a disability. (note: special circle of hell for those mother frockers. I mean it's all bad, but really?)

Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
7.5 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
6.4 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
2.6 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
0.9 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
8.6 percent were victims of a bias against other religions (anti-other religion).

This was partially what I expected, and partially eye-opening.

It seemed very likely that anti-Semitism would be very high on the list.* It also seemed likely that Islamophobia would be high on the list.

I was a little surprised, regardless of the sizes of the respective groups, that Catholics represented a full 1/10 of the number of Jews victimized. With 78.2 million Catholics in the country and some saying 6.7 million Jews - that is, a twelvefold difference in population - a Catholic had about 1/100th the likelihood of actual persecution, at the criminal level, based on his religion, as a Jew. (There would be a similar but not as extreme "likelihood gap" as compared with a Muslim.)

Finally, I was astonished at the low number of anti-agnostic/atheist crimes. This (to me) points to the "internecine" nature of religious-motivated violence. Despite the often purposefully provocative expressions of atheism (not so much agnosticism,) atheists are apparently not a lightning rod. Or perhaps there are just no atheist cemeteries or houses of worship. ::shrug::

As to anti-Protestant hate crime bias, it is comparatively miniscule as compared with other religious groups.

I know 13 has a handy explanation for such stats: He has maintained in the past that if you're 1/10th of the population, based on the number of people with an opportunity to hate you, you should be hated 10 times as much as the 10:1 majority. Even so, the 100:1 difference between Jews and Catholics is difficult to justify; even more difficult would be the extreme difference between Jews and Protestants.

Now, these are criminal acts - acts usually considered instances of persecution. That's how we'd do it for any other society: are people being singled out for mistreatment?

Where the difficulty comes in is the claim that people not liking Tim Tebow's song-and-dance make them anti-Christian and the like. That sort of thing is more difficult to quantify.

However, the fact that Christians are staging stories (mock arrests, for example,) seem to bolster the author's contention (in the OP) that it's a phenomenon visible only to the Faithful.

* I am aware that Arabs are also Semites, and so some Islamophobia is also anti-Semitism, by a broader definition. I use "anti-Semitism" as a convention of historical convenience; if you would prefer, read "anti-Jewish bias."

PFnV
 


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