PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

The biggest play that impacted the outcome no one is talking about: Browns go for 2


Status
Not open for further replies.

hallfamebrady

On the Game Day Roster
Joined
Nov 24, 2004
Messages
276
Reaction score
0
The Browns decision to go for two points when they went up 12 - 0 on a TD in the third quarter which they failed to convert. I am aware that the two points would have given the Browns a two TD lead but the call was plain stupid for that time in the game.

Almost every football expert advises strongly going for two unless you have to late in the game. Chasing points in the third quarter is way too early. The Pats were then placed in a situation where they needed to go for two in they scored their first TD and they converted. They would not have gone for two if the Browns only went and converted an XP. If all the teams went for and converted extra points after TD's, the score would have been 27 - 27 at the end of regulation. Dumb decision by the Browns coaching staff.
 
Never....ever.... Leave points on the board. Especially when you're 12-0 in the third quarter
 
When I saw it I said the same thing and thought it made no sense. It was an odd play like they were scared or overthinking it.

It was also in a bad spot for us when it looked like the game was getting out of hand.

It reminds me a lot of the chicken**** run by the broncos in our red zone up 21 or 14 to zip in the 1st half and they did a bland run on 3rd and long instead of trying to throw the ball. (I wish I remembered the score better)

It was as if they thought they had the game won, or they were getting cute or overthinking it just like Cleveland today.

After both plays I thought it could and hoped it would bite them in the ass.
 
That call did end up hurting them. But I believe the coach was psychologically pressured into making that call because he felt that he was facing Tom Brady and the Patriots. He felt he needed at least a 2 TD lead to feel somewhat safe. As we saw, that wasn't enough.

Also don't forget that even if the Browns had made what we now say is the 'correct' call. The Pats still would have won the game on the second touchdown. Because they would have kicked the extra point instead of going for 2, if the Browns had 27 at that point in time.
 
If the Pats were in that position at that time in the game, I'd want them to go for 2
 
Well it would of been 27-28 as we would not have gone for two either.
 
Well it would of been 27-28 as we would not have gone for two either.

That's right. Assuming the same scoring plays during the game, the score would have went like this:

Browns go for 1 instead of 2: 0-13
Patriots FG: 3-13
Browns TD (with one point): 3-20
Patriots TD (now, there's no reason to go for 2, because you still need three scores): 10-20
Patriots FG: 13-20
Browns TD: 13-27
Patriots TD: 20-27
Patriots TD: 27-27

Also, that one point would have given the Browns more options. If they had been up 7 instead of 5 with 3:00 to go inside the ten yard line, do they play it differently? Patriots had used a time out on the challenge. At this point, if you're the Browns, a FG is almost as good as TD, because it requires two scores by the Patriots. Instead, they went for a TD to get up 2 scores, but by doing so they left too much time on the clock. Do you think about kneeling on the ball a few times, getting the Patriots to burn their two times outs and getting under the two minute warning, then kicking the FG to go up by 10? I think you might decide that's the better play than a quick TD.

Maybe not -- maybe you take the TD every time even if it's fast. I've posted about this before, and I'm not sure it's statistically the right answer. Sometimes burning clock is more important than points. Even if they had just one run extra play before the TD to make the Patriots burn time out number 3, it changes the odds. Then they can for the TD or, at worst, take the 3 points. But they can't do that down by only 5. Also -- and this one is controversial -- sometimes having a smaller lead is actually more conservative, because it makes your opponent kick FGs on fourth down instead of going for it. If the Patriots had been down 10 with 1:20 and no time outs, I would think they kick a quick FG on their first possession and then try the onside kick. In other words, up by 10 late, instead of up by 11 late, overtime is more likely but also usually the worst case scenario. Viewed this way, the chance to burn clock or timeouts is can be a smart play on your opponents' 5 yard line with a 6 point lead. But not with a 5 point lead.

But all this is a long digression -- whatever you think about these points and I know many will disagree with the suggestion that you don't always take a TD, the bottom line is that having that extra point gives you options. Not having it took them away.

At the end of the game, both teams scored three TDs and two FGs. The difference in the game was that the Browns were 0-1 on two point conversions and the Patriots were 1-1. That's the point that was the margin. Same as the super bowl against Carolina -- they chased the two points twice and although the FG at the end was the winning margin, the only difference in the game in scoring plays was the difference in two point conversions.
 
I told my wife that, that was gonna come back to bite them in the ***. Sure enuff, it did. I was telling her, they totally disrespected the Pats D. At the time, you cant blame them
 
Shades of the Super Bowl vs. Carolina. Each team scored 4 TDs and 1 FG, but the Patriots outdid the Panthers by 3 points total on 2-point conversions, and that was the winning margin.
 
I'll admit that, at the time, I didn't give this too much thought.

I will say that it fit into what the more aggressive mindset of the Browns offense. Just before their last TD, I thought they were going to run the ball, take time of the clock, and settle for a FG. Next play, TD pass.
 
I'm normally one to blast Browns coaching any chance I get, but ... I thought it made sense, given how bad our offense looked at the time and how well they were "shortening the game".

I may have been wrong at the time, but it was certainly an unusual circumstance, so even though it may have been wrong, it wasn't CLEARLY the wrong move.
 
I'm normally one to blast Browns coaching any chance I get, but ... I thought it made sense, given how bad our offense looked at the time and how well they were "shortening the game".

I may have been wrong at the time, but it was certainly an unusual circumstance, so even though it may have been wrong, it wasn't CLEARLY the wrong move.

There aren't terribly many leads where it makes sense to go for two. Among the few I can think of are if you're +7 before the try (if you fail, they still need a TD to tie, but if you make it, they need two scores), and to a lesser extent +13 to +15. But +12 doesn't really get you much; if you fail (~50% chance), your opponents only need a TD and two FGs to take the lead, while even if you succeed, they only need two TDs to tie.
 
The Browns decision to go for two points when they went up 12 - 0 on a TD in the third quarter which they failed to convert. I am aware that the two points would have given the Browns a two TD lead but the call was plain stupid for that time in the game.

Almost every football expert advises strongly going for two unless you have to late in the game. Chasing points in the third quarter is way too early. The Pats were then placed in a situation where they needed to go for two in they scored their first TD and they converted. They would not have gone for two if the Browns only went and converted an XP. If all the teams went for and converted extra points after TD's, the score would have been 27 - 27 at the end of regulation. Dumb decision by the Browns coaching staff.

Yep, I thought it was a bad call at the time and clearly it was. A mistake by a young coach.
 
There aren't terribly many leads where it makes sense to go for two. Among the few I can think of are if you're +7 before the try (if you fail, they still need a TD to tie, but if you make it, they need two scores)

It would be a bad idea to go for two in that situation. Kick the ball, get an eight point lead, and if they score they still have to get a two to tie it. Otherwise they have a chance to win with a two, or tie with a kick. Don't go for two if you don't have to, instead get an eight point lead and make them go for two.
 
The personal foul against the Browns for the hit on Edelman was a huge factor because Gostowski was kicking from the 50. NE recovered the onside kick at the 40 and had a short field with no timeouts.

The Browns burning all their timeouts was also big. Another 7 - 10 seconds to run 1 more play getting the ball closer could have made the FG doable.
 
I thought a big play no one was talking about was the refs blowing the whistle early after Campbell fumbled. Easy six points for the Pats if he hadn't, and a huge swing in the momentum of the game...
 
I thought a big play no one was talking about was the refs blowing the whistle early after Campbell fumbled. Easy six points for the Pats if he hadn't, and a huge swing in the momentum of the game...
My sentiments exactly for the last 24 hours. My buddy told me today that no matter what, once the whistle is blown that it's a dead ball and unchallengeable. Been looking for this all day here when I got a chance. Can someone explain a little better for me please? (I keep looking up to the "not so silly rules" thread too!)
 
Agree about the Campbell play, except then you have to look at Gronk's fumble on the play he was injured. I thought they'd lost the ball there... that was a huge no-call in our favor.
 
Agree about the Campbell play, except then you have to look at Gronk's fumble on the play he was injured. I thought they'd lost the ball there... that was a huge no-call in our favor.

A huge no-call in the Pats favor? He was down.


wspEQFE.png


Contacted by a defender, ball still firmly in hand and elbow on the ground.

DOWN.
 
Gee, maybe you're right. I saw the replay last night and it looked like it was coming out on the way down. But I Googled the Youtube replay and it was out only after he hit. Thanks for setting me straight.

To quote Roseanne Roseannadanna:"Never mind." LOL
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top