The biggest deciding factor against the Broncos last week....

[PATRIOT64]

Many of the guys on here say that not having Chad Jackson on board or Gabriel starting in ther WR rotation earlier cost us the game - Instead of blaming it all on McDaniels (even though I still don't like him as OC)..I think the biggest loss was Corey going out with the injury....I thought we had played very toe to toe with the Broncos till Corey got hurt..Lawrence was not ready to take over full reigns and showed he needs to split time with Corey or Heath or Kevin (whoever is healthy) until he grows a bit more in tune and feeling more comfortable as the season progresses...When the running game stopped producing,the Broncos put on the calvary charge into our O-Line and loaded up the box the rest of the night knowing it was going to be the Brady show for the last 2+ quarters and knowing our WRs were not ready for Prime Time,or facing Champ Bailey... Had Corey stayed and split duties with Lawrence I think we might have been talking a 3-0 record or at least a game to the wire - To say that Denver was better prepared or played better than us is hogwash..The only thing we were not prepared for as well as Denver was losing a cog in our super rushing game and until Tom gets better aquainted with the WRs we are gonna need all the best of rushing attack we can muster.. Those who think we are gonna get wiped out this sunday may be more of a premature guess.. If Corey and Lawrence team up healthy again and if our DB can keep those gargantuan receivers somewhat in check this will be a dogfight despite our below average passing game and maybe not as high scoring as one might think- I think it will be close and we will have a chance to win late in this game,If Corey plays you can Bank On a nailbiter to the wire.....

 

[SoonerPatriot]

The more I think about it, I keep coming back to the fact we just don't beat Denver. It doesn't happen.

THe last time it did was on a Monday night in Denver. Here's what had to happen first:

1-The Broncos were down to the 3rd string QB, Danny Kannell, who started.

2-We had to take an intentional safety.

3-Brady hit David Givens for a TD with about 18 or so seconds left in the game to win it.

I realize Seymour was out that game but if we had this much trouble beating a Danny Kannell led team with one of the best, if not the best Patriot team we've fielded, then it stands to reason we're not going to beat them with this team or last year's team. It's just one of those things. Sorta like when we used to own the Colts. We could play Denver 10 times on home and home or neutral sites and they'd win at least 8 out of 10.

 

[kptmorgan04]

I stated that this was a big reason we lost in my "Perspective from Sea" post directly following the game last week when the universe was falling on the rest of patriots nation.
I am not going to say that we would have won the game, because who knows, but I do think that this was a HUGE reason whey it was able to get away from us like it did. For all those people doubting corey this offseason (including thomase, who I emailed right before the season, questioning what he had against the guy when he looked great in training camp etc... he never did get back to me), I think it has been seen that in order for us to be successful this year he must be a major contributer.

so in short I do agree that him being out was the main problem that the pats had that night, but cant go out and say they would have won, becuase they were playing pretty bad all around

 

[PATRIOT64]

I believe way back in the early Patriot years we beat Denver like 6-7 times in a row...Boy have times changed!...Maybe we might have to wait and hope that Peyton Manning becomes a Bronco years down the road in order to beat them and end the futility

 

[PATRIOT64]

Until Tom and the WRs get in synch (hopefully they will) the only way we will win games is either turnovers (which have become so rare around here that they should be on eBay when they occur ) or better yet a simple factor in games for at least the meanwhile is that we MUST own possession of the ball at LEAST 35-40 minutes of every game for awhile,if we can do that we will win..no matter how pathetic the passing game is during this early stretch of the season - check the stats on the games we win and lose in the upcoming weeks and I bet that will be something that shows as a factor.

 

[PATRIOT64]

To sum it all up IF Corey is out there from the start on sunday we have a shot....If he is not,you may be turning off the game early,it could get ugly..I think that he indeed is a MAJOR reason why we have a shot here in this game with Cincy - TIME OF POSSESSION FACTOR.

 

[richpats]

After thinking about Sunday's game and what Denver did to win, and thinking about the games we've lost over the Belichick era, I finally realized what dooms us (especially against Denver):

AGGRESSIVE PLAYCALLING!

Shanahan is known for making aggressive playcalls and Denver never tries to do a long sustained drive against us - see the 3rd and 1 bomb to Walker - who ever does that?

Also see the playoff game where he called a bomb from the 40 on TWO consecuitve drives under 2 minutes remaining without any regard for eating up most of the clock.

Most teams don't have the playmakers to pull it off against us but Denver always seems to be able to. From what I've heard/seen/read about Belichick he plays the percentages for the most part - that's what Shanahan is able to take advantage of- in some situations he disregards the percentages.

 

[rabthepat]

Many of the guys on here say that not having Chad Jackson on board or Gabriel starting in ther WR rotation earlier cost us the game - Instead of blaming it all on McDaniels (even though I still don't like him as OC)..I think the biggest loss was Corey going out with the injury....I thought we had played very toe to toe with the Broncos till Corey got hurt..Lawrence was not ready to take over full reigns and showed he needs to split time with Corey or Heath or Kevin (whoever is healthy) until he grows a bit more in tune and feeling more comfortable as the season progresses...When the running game stopped producing,the Broncos put on the calvary charge into our O-Line and loaded up the box the rest of the night knowing it was going to be the Brady show for the last 2+ quarters and knowing our WRs were not ready for Prime Time,or facing Champ Bailey... Had Corey stayed and split duties with Lawrence I think we might have been talking a 3-0 record or at least a game to the wire - To say that Denver was better prepared or played better than us is hogwash..The only thing we were not prepared for as well as Denver was losing a cog in our super rushing game and until Tom gets better aquainted with the WRs we are gonna need all the best of rushing attack we can muster.. Those who think we are gonna get wiped out this sunday may be more of a premature guess.. If Corey and Lawrence team up healthy again and if our DB can keep those gargantuan receivers somewhat in check this will be a dogfight despite our below average passing game and maybe not as high scoring as one might think- I think it will be close and we will have a chance to win late in this game,If Corey plays you can Bank On a nailbiter to the wire.....

After so many years of analyzing our losses to Denver I have come to the conclusion that they have been able to beat the Patriots consistently over time because over time they have consistently been the better team from top to bottom. In all 5 of our SB appearances we have never had to beat Denver in the playoffs.

 

[Kdo5]

Our offense sucked when we lost Dillon. Its as simple as that.

 

[Isaac]

Good thread. They stopped the run, we didn't. Few teams in the NFL, including the Patriots, are going to win in that situation.

 

[Brownfan80]

For all the different factors that went into the loss, I knew the game was over when: We lined up to go for it on 4th down in a run package. I could feel that the play was not going to work, and as soon as it was snapped, I uttered 'game over'. And it was.

 

[zoostation]

Our offense sucked when we lost Dillon. Its as simple as that.

You're 100% correct. That's why I laughed at all those yahoo threads earlier in the year about having Maroney start (and get most of the snaps). CD softens the opposing D.

 

[Brownfan80]

You're 100% correct. That's why I laughed at all those yahoo threads earlier in the year about having Maroney start (and get most of the snaps). CD softens the opposing D.

Not only does he soften the D, he creates more short yardage second and third down plays than any back I can remember. If you give it to Corey twice on 1st and 2nd down, then you can pretty much bet that the worst situation you're facing on 3rd down is 3rd and 5, usually better.

Maroney works well when playing off of Corey's bruising plodding style because teams have just had to take an IMPACT over and over from CD without really having to track him down, then all of the sudden they're trying to keep up with a faster back that is elusive as hell.

It's a great 1-2 punch. I hope Corey can stay healthier than he has for the first couple weeks. It seems like he's gotten dinged in just about every game so far. If he's 100%, then this rushing attack is going to be hard to stop.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Until Tom and the WRs get in synch (hopefully they will) the only way we will win games is either turnovers (which have become so rare around here that they should be on eBay when they occur ) or better yet a simple factor in games for at least the meanwhile is that we MUST own possession of the ball at LEAST 35-40 minutes of every game for awhile,if we can do that we will win..no matter how pathetic the passing game is during this early stretch of the season - check the stats on the games we win and lose in the upcoming weeks and I bet that will be something that shows as a factor.

They kept trying to get Maroney outside against the faster defense. I really think platooning Maroney and Evans and running between the tackles was going to accomplish more towards loosening up Denver's defense.

 

[Oswlek]

The more I think about it, I keep coming back to the fact we just don't beat Denver. It doesn't happen.

THe last time it did was on a Monday night in Denver. Here's what had to happen first:

1-The Broncos were down to the 3rd string QB, Danny Kannell, who started.

2-We had to take an intentional safety.

3-Brady hit David Givens for a TD with about 18 or so seconds left in the game to win it.

I realize Seymour was out that game but if we had this much trouble beating a Danny Kannell led team with one of the best, if not the best Patriot team we've fielded, then it stands to reason we're not going to beat them with this team or last year's team. It's just one of those things. Sorta like when we used to own the Colts. We could play Denver 10 times on home and home or neutral sites and they'd win at least 8 out of 10.

Don't forget Denver losing their FG kicker in that game. That caused Denver to punt or lose the ball on downs in a few situations that they normally would have tried for the figgie.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Yes you are correct. I couldn't agree more. Losing Corey was a big reason we were not competative in this game. That could be the fastest defense in the league. As it was discussed here prior to the game, one of the keys was running Corey up the middle and wearing down those speedy linebackers. didn't happen.

That failed 4th down conversion was also a TERRIBLE call. I agree with going for it but we should have slammed the ball up the gut. Was Corey out of the game by that point??

After that failed attempt the Bronocs went on a scoring drive. Big momentum changer.

Not having a kicker also finally came back to haunt us. We get 3 in the 1st half then it's a 1 possession game late in the 4th assuming we do score that TD.

Lastly that TERRIBLE whistle by the refs on the fumble. They are supposed to let the plays go this season and sort things out later when in doubt. HUGE momentum swing LOST.

Very tough game. Even tougher in the airport on the way back to Denver listening to the Donkees fans celebrating.

Been to (5) Pats-Bronocos games in my life. Seen the Pats lose 4 of them quite soundly. The 1 win we had to pull out of our *****.

 

[jbhiggy]

After so many years of analyzing our losses to Denver I have come to the conclusion that they have been able to beat the Patriots consistently over time because over time they have consistently been the better team from top to bottom. In all 5 of our SB appearances we have never had to beat Denver in the playoffs.

Thats a very good point, I have always felt that if the Broncos had beaten the Jaguars in 96... no way would we have been in that super bowl against the Packers.

And the Jaguars stopped a dynasty from happening, they probably would have won 3 in a row.

 

[rabthepat]

Thats a very good point, I have always felt that if the Broncos had beaten the Jaguars in 96... no way would we have been in that super bowl against the Packers.

And the Jaguars stopped a dynasty from happening, they probably would have won 3 in a row.

Exactly...as soon as the Jags beat Denver that year I new we were going to the Superbowl.

 

[rabthepat]

For all the different factors that went into the loss, I knew the game was over when: We lined up to go for it on 4th down in a run package. I could feel that the play was not going to work, and as soon as it was snapped, I uttered 'game over'. And it was.

I was saying the same thing. Why didn't Tom do a quick snap and do a QB sneak? It looked like Denver wasn't ready at first. We allowed them to set and then asked Maroney to become a power back.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

No consistent pass rush killed the Pats. By not getting to Plummer, Denver was allowed to stay on the field too long and eventually they burned us. Don't think it had much to do with the lack of a pass rush? Then think of it this way - if the Pats can't bring anymore pressure this Sunday than they did against Denver, then just imagine what a guy like Palmer, who is far better than Plummer, will rack up against us Sunday whether Dillon, Jackson, or even Superman all line up for our offense.

The reasons for a loss are usually multiple, yes, and that fourth down call was horrific considering Denver had stopped the run all day, and the O was out of snych, but defense just gave the Broncos too much room to operate behind the line.