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The Big Show Receiver Argument...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Kid~Brady, Oct 10, 2011.

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  1. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I went to a store once that offered a "bulk discount" . . . 10% off 1, 20% off 2, 30% off 3 or more.

    When I bought two items, and took it to the cashier, he took 10% off each, and tried to explain to me that "10% off the first and 10% off the second is 20% off."

    I asked to speak to the manager. I found out he was the manager. :bricks:
     
  2. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That was bad, but Ordway's argument basically boiled down to "more production (which he rated by catches) = better receiver". Any Patriots fan who remembers 2007 knows better. I love Welker, but there's not a chance in hell that he was a better receiver than Moss in 2007.
     
  3. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Welker may be the best PLAYER in the NFL right now, not just wr

    It just don't understand what Brady and him have to do to get the respect they deserve..seems like people are always trying to find people they can say are better.
     
  4. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It depends on how good the offensive line is protecting the guy who is throwing them the ball. Receivers are third-level acquisitions.

    In order: Linemen - QB - Receivers & running backs.

    Welker's new contract should reward him and keep him as a core piece of the Brady attack but reflect his relative value in the marketplace. Welker knows that New England is one of a few ideal teams for him, as Branch discovered after he left for Seattle.

    He would become irrelevant in a Michael Vick offense or be completely wasted on a team without a great reader of defensive schemes. Welker would be terrific with Rodgers in Green Bay or Fitzpatrick in Buffalo.

    But his talents would be wasted or he would get killed on teams with quarterbacks who do not have time or who can't consistently get him the ball in spots that allow him to maneuver.
     
  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    More catches equal better receiver is wrong, but more production equals better receiver is correct. And in 2007 Moss had more production with over 300 more yards and almost 3 times as many TDs.
    Welker has more receiving yards in the first 5 games of this season that ANY WR IN NFL HISTORY HAS EVER HAD IN THE FIRST 5 WEEKS OF A SEASON.
    Welker 2011 (so far) is a better receiver than Moss 2007, because he produces more.
    Its silly IMO to determine the best WR by what you think the most important skils are when the answer is there on the field. Whatever the 'more talented' WRs have, they also lack skills that Welker possesses, and the result is Welkers skills play better in producing on the football field. At least right now.
    There is no doubt that Welker can get open and make plays that no one else in the NFL can. Whether that is quickness, intelligence, feel, moves or whatever you want to call it, anyone saying Welker < his production simply undervalues those qualities.
     
  6. Deus Irae

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    People don't put him up with C. Johnson, A. Johnson, Fitzgerald and some of the other elite outside receivers. The reason for this is because it's about more than just raw numbers, the same as it is for most positions in the game. He's generally considered the best slot receiver in the game, though, so I'm not sure how that's not giving him respect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  7. Sivy

    Sivy In the Starting Line-Up

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    He gets respect, just not enough..

    because he is short and white and doesnt have a cartoon nickname.

    Lets get people to start calling Tom Brady Heman, and Welker Battle Cat and they will get even more respect.
     
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How is being acknowledged as the best in your position (slot receiver) not enough? How is being the first unanimous MVP not enough?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  9. MoLewisrocks

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    Yesterday I was listening to the pre game show on the radio and the three stooges (Perillo was in with Gresh and Zo) were babbling about how they wouldn't give Welker a new contract this year because he'll be 32 or eventually they had him up to 33 next season... He turned 30 in May. They said they'd franchise him and assuming he'd be worth it for another year but not on a long term deal...

    They probably don't realize that all a long term deal allows for is cap flexibility...And even moreso if you extend him before the end of this season...

    But on the bright side Peter King said today if Welker keeps this up much longer his name might just come up one day in the HOF voters discussions... Might...

    Belichick traded for Welker before he had any reason to believe he would be acquiring Moss. Although I remember at the time NEM claimed it was a huge mistake in hindsight and with Moss onboard he predicted Welker would be cut or traded before camp ended that season...
     
  10. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    heh...yeah...BUT...if fish carried luggage....
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    who would ever know????:confused2:
     
  11. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

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    The "Welker isn't so great" argument put forth by Perillo and so many others, has never made sense to me. Has anyone ever led the NFL in receptions over a 5-year period and not made the Hall? How about first-down catches? At least a little important, aren't they? With Welker you're hardly allowed to even mention the H.O.F. possibility without being ridiculed as just not getting it. So I guess I don't get it; I fail to see why one of football's elite shouldn't be eligible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  12. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    A key question is:

    How good does the rest of the team have to be for the guy to be able to produce?

    Welker has produced, big, without Brady. (The Cassell year.)

    Welker has produced, big, with a good-not-great set of receivers next to him. (Branch, still-young Gronk, still-young Hernandez when healthy.)

    Welker has never produced big without the Patriots' OL or coaching staff.
     
  13. IcyPatriot

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  14. JJDChE

    JJDChE 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    6th is pretty fair.

    If you went and put all the NFL WRs in a pool and redrafted them all, I'd say 6th is the earliest possible slot that Welker would go.
     
  15. tests

    tests Banned

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    this has got to be a joke?

    Best player in the NFL? he is not even better than calvin johnson as a wr or fitzgerald. What was welker doing again outside of the patriots system?
     
  16. tests

    tests Banned

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    I mean, let me put into perspective how ridiculous your argument sounds.

    Welker is the best player in the NFL... than that means brady is either 2nd or 3rd (depending on where you rank rodgers i guess).

    So welker and brady are the top cats in the nfl... so they better win a superbowl relatively easy this year, right?
     
  17. farn

    farn 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I freely admit I was on the "Welker won't be resigned to a big contract" side before the season started. I even figured Edelman, though not as good, would be better "value" than an older Welker.

    This year, Welker has been on fire. Though the TEs have improved, he is the one getting the ball so often and, more importantly, in clutch situations. He has delivered. Big time.

    I'll admit the Johnsons and Fitz are better than Welker, but I'm REALLY REALLY happy Welker is on this team. Even though Calvin has been on fire, I think - when healthy - Texas' Johnson is #1 in the league.
     
  18. tests

    tests Banned

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    IMO c johnsons, texas johnson, fitzgerald... any of them can be numero uno. Definitely not welker though..
     
  19. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    I had to clean out my ears when I heard that. Just a slot reciever? My a**... Normally I dont watch those pregame shows because of idiotic crap like that.
     
  20. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't say Welker is the #1 in the league after seeing him get caught by Revis on the 73 yarder Sunday.
     
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